Any vets around? Massive ethical issues

[NewYoiker]

Our 4 month old puppy was attacked last week and today as a follow up they checked over her mouth and found a lump that wasn't there last week, it's 'of the bone', not soft tissue about the size of a pea. The vet wants X-rays but he isn't happy.

It's definitely bony but the vet suggested putting her to sleep or refer her to a hospital or Fitzpatricks for removal of her jaw bone and inserting a metal plate or just removing the jaw.

Is there any way it isn't cancer?

X rays on Friday and I'm so worried

I suggest finding another vet and when you are sorted to report the first one.
Seriously ?? Euthanise a puppy before you even know what's wrong with it ??? Bizarre. I

Makes you worry if he has put any poor pups to sleep at such a young age without good reason

Err what? He wants to pts today but can't even x Ray til Friday? you need to get away from that vets and go somewhere else fast!

@DullardMullard, of course Noel Fitzpatrick is God

OP, get the opinion of a second vet before making any decisions. Hopefully you might be able to get one tomorrow (well today now as it's just after midnight)
I wouldn't go near that vet ever again.

Not a vet, but that advice sounds ridiculous. With an older dog I could understand considering PTS, but 4 months old and no definitive diagnosis of cancer is bizarre and a little worrying! I would be googling vets in the area and having a call around tomorrow. The insurance comment seems weird too, it shouldn't matter who your insurance is with to them. My vets have filled in insurance paperwork and dealt with the claim process on my behalf for a nominal fee and I didn't get the insurance through them.

I've had a local vet tell me there's nothing more can be done to help one of my pets after a prolapse, yet he underwent further treatment with another (amazing) vet and is still with us several years later and no further issues.

Perhaps try looking on facebook for breed specific dog groups and seeing if anyone can recommend a vet near to you, if you don't get any suggestions through this thread.

There are some really shitty vets out there.

Good luck with the second opinion. Hopefully it is nothing serious.

NewYorker are you nr Crewe? Nantwich has a brilliant vet hospital with a satellite in Crewe. We used to take all our pets there.
We also have the Leonard Brothers ( they were on the Vets in Practice programme ) locally.

PMed you

@NewYoiker
Please do not PTS, you need a diagnosis. Cancer is very unlikely in a young dog, this lump is much more likely to be related to the trauma or a developmental issue.

If that’s genuinely the advice you’ve been given then i’d Suggest an RCVS complaint

In your area you have a number of good veterinary hospitals and referral centres - Willow’s and Chestergates spring to mind, as well as the University veterinary hospital in Liverpool - you don’t need to be schlepping to Fitzpatrick!
Please get a second opinion.

Sorry- misunderstood. Of course you need a diagnosis before making any decisions.

Alfreton Park vets at Alfreton Derbyshire were brilliant with us. I used them for years.

I took my 12 year old staff cross to them after noticing one of his testes was bigger. (Hated vets, always walked on a lead, so never had him neutered). Anyway. I commented he'd put weight on too, that triggered high alert for them. They lightly sedated him and x rayed as they suspected a growth inside too.
Very honest about what they were expecting and predicted outcomes. (Tumour on spleen - removable! Tumour on liver more debatable etc). They x rayed that afternoon and rang me whilst he was still lightly sedated. He had testicular cancer in both testes and a huge grapefruit sized tumour on his spleen.
They removed everything and the aftercare was brilliant.
He lived another 6 years after that.

Found them always honest and helpful.

New vet please

You are right next to the Liverpool Veterinary Hospital, they have an international reputation for excellence. Take her there, and change local vets, they sound shockingly crap.

@NewYoiker please ask for a referral before xrays, or go for a second opinion. I’m the vet from higher up this thread, and now that I’ve read the updates, you definitely need a different vet. I’m not one to diss colleagues but this one has given some seriously weird advice. You are really quite close to North West Veterinary Specialists, they have an oncologist in their team, so if it is nasty he would be in the best hands. As @Veterinari said above, Willows and Chestergates are in the area too, or Liverpool vet school. Definitely no need to head to Fitzpatrick.

Your vet sounds unhinged.

You are near the teaching hospital at Liverpool vet school so you will have good options there. Personally I'd find a small animal specialist locally first (maybe find your nearest Dogs Trust and ask them who they use). Ask for a senior vet, somebody who has been in practice for a good few years.

A dog who is eating and drinking and happy day to day is not one who needs to be rushed to be pts.

When I broke my leg, I had additional trauma to my other heel and I grew a big bony spur, which was just excess growth of bone in a place that had been knocked hard. I googled, kept an eye on it and it went down and disappeared by itself - so it wouldn't surprise me if young very much still growing puppy bones had done similar in response to a knock during the attack. Try to keep calm and find a sensible knowledgeable vet before making any big decisions.

I'd recommend either www.oakwoodvetreferrals.co.uk/ in Northwich - they are excellent.

Please OP do not go back to your vet. There will be a specialist vet near you too, generally no need to go to Fitzpatrick that’s just your vet being lazy.

In defence of Fitzpatrick referrals they are more likely to medicate when they can or amputate a leg rather than put the dog through too much. He also won’t be persuaded by the owner. They only do bionic when they believe it is of more benefit to the animal. He has stated many many times that the TV program is a snapshot of all of the sexy stuff no one wants to watch a program where they send off dogs with metacalm but most of their patients don’t need surgery.

Our dog had a similar issue and Oakwood (also called The Willows, mentioned above, it's the same place) fixed it. We have also had several other complex issues diagnosed and treated there with care and compassion. They aren't cheap (no referral vet is) but I'd recommend them to anyone. Good luck OP.

I also hear great things about Leahurst (the Liverpool Uni referral centre) www.liverpool.ac.uk/sath/owners/how-to-refer/ I've not used them but I believe they are great. Based in the Wirral, not far from Chester.

Personally speaking, I would have the X-rays first, find out what you're dealing with and go from there. I am an utter animal lover but personally speaking, if I was looking at something very serious with hugely invasive and painful surgery and a massive artificial change to the animal (such as removal of jaw) then I would very sadly and reluctantly PTS. It's not the cost - it's the years of discomfort. Removal of jaw cannot be comfortable plus the puppy would still be growing so not sure how a metal plate would/could work out, as the jaw continues to grow and stretch. But the first step is to find out what exactly you are dealing with. Just that if it seems to you that the best/most humane option is to PTS then please don't feel guilty about it if that's the course that you do eventually have to choose

Heartshapedlocket is spot on.

Find out what you are dealing with first.

If it's serious, thoroughly consider the long-term implications for the dog - and dreadful as it is - don't be afraid to let her go if that is the best thing for her. It is not kind to keep an animal alive at any cost just because we can - but it is sensible to find out exactly what the problem is.

Lumps can be caused by many things, most of them benign. She's a lovely puppy. I am like Heart - I don't consider massive surgical options to be good for the dog if they are going to impact on quality of life, or severely impede natural movement or functions in any way.

The main thing is, don't feel pushed into PTS. My dog here, sleeping on my feet, was given next to no chance by our old vet (for a different issue) seven years ago. They offered PTS as the best option, and only after us pushing gave us a referral to Oakwood/The Willows. We got a second opinion and she's fit as a fiddle now. Changed vets afterwards!

Can recommend this practice, they are referral vets so more highly trained, but you can can ring them and go direct, they are in your area-

dogwoodvets.co.uk/

I am stunned that a vet would suggest euthansia right away, when he has no idea what is wrong with the dog. Honestly that is the maddest thing, i think a complaint is needed, as he may be killing animals totally unnecessarily!
So like almost all the pps, I say new vet. I wouldn’t let that vet anywhere near my dog again.

I am very untrusting of vets these days.

I had one a year or two ago who suggested putting our six year old cat down as he had an eye condition - which was treatable but very expensive. I told her that there is no way I would be putting him down and I had insurance and if it went over, I would pay. She said something about not throwing money away...... she was a specialist so we had no choice but to stay with her. I think it cost just over £2k so my insurance covered it anyway.

More recently, we got a puppy and he was acting a bit off one night, very lethargic - one vet said "parvo" purely based on him being lethargic (it wasn't) and another decided to give him a very quick once over and wrote in the notes that he had a knee condition - without performing any tests or xrays -
So I now have a puppy that has its knees included from all insurance policies.