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Original poster

Any vets around? Massive ethical issues

170 replies

NewYoiker · 27/03/2019 21:19

Our 4 month old puppy was attacked last week and today as a follow up they checked over her mouth and found a lump that wasn't there last week, it's 'of the bone', not soft tissue about the size of a pea. The vet wants X-rays but he isn't happy.

It's definitely bony but the vet suggested putting her to sleep or refer her to a hospital or Fitzpatricks for removal of her jaw bone and inserting a metal plate or just removing the jaw.

Is there any way it isn't cancer?

X rays on Friday and I'm so worried

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 27/03/2019 22:47

I would always say PTS. I think “heroic” on animals who cannot possibly understand or consent is cruel and abrogating responsibility.

Pannalash · 27/03/2019 22:48

Please find another Vet. Wishing your gorgeous pup a speedy diagnosis and recovery Flowers

onionchucker · 27/03/2019 22:48

Please take her somewhere else for her x-ray. He'll x-ray her and not know what the lump is and suggest pts again.
Also don't know why they need to admit her for an x-ray. Mine have always just had an x-ray if needed and then I've waited a bit with them until they come round the sedation and then been allowed to take them home.

QuestionableMouse · 27/03/2019 22:49

God run to another vet (preferably at another practice)

Don't rush to do anything before you get a xray at least!

Pannalash · 27/03/2019 22:50

Seriously Bertrand without even so much as an X-ray? Hmm

QuestionableMouse · 27/03/2019 22:50

@BertrandRussell nothing about this pup suggests she needs to be pts. My Jack Russell had a lump in his jaw. It turned out to be a problem with one of his teeth. Tooth removed and he's absolutely fine.

BadPennyNoBiscuit · 27/03/2019 22:51

Please get a second opinion from a different practice.
The lump can be investigated before you make a decision, it could be a bone splinter or piece of the other dogs tooth.

DontCallMeShitley · 27/03/2019 22:53

@CanukBC Fitzpatrick is Noel Fitzpatrick, the Supervet on UK TV, otherwise known as the Bionic Vet. As well as fixing spinal injuries and replacing limbs with bionic ones, he has 2 hospitals, one is for Oncology.

NewYoiker your vet sounds like one I had the misfortune to see in Surrey, had no idea at all. Gave him the benefit of the doubt as he was clearly inexperienced and possibly not even fully qualified. Wonder if it is the same one.

You need to find a new vet, as has been said already, it may be trauma. If not it should be investigated by someone who knows what they are doing. A vet is supposed to save lives, not needlessly destroy them.

Dear little dog.

HeartShapedLocket · 27/03/2019 22:54

I feel for you. It's heartbreaking.

Personally speaking, I would have the X-rays first, find out what you're dealing with and go from there. I am an utter animal lover but personally speaking, if I was looking at something very serious with hugely invasive and painful surgery and a massive artificial change to the animal (such as removal of jaw) then I would very sadly and reluctantly PTS. It's not the cost - it's the years of discomfort. Removal of jaw cannot be comfortable plus the puppy would still be growing so not sure how a metal plate would/could work out, as the jaw continues to grow and stretch. But the first step is to find out what exactly you are dealing with. Just that if it seems to you that the best/most humane option is to PTS then please don't feel guilty about it if that's the course that you do eventually have to choose. Flowers

SuperheroBirds · 27/03/2019 22:56

We were in a similar situation two years ago but with much more supportive vets. Our golden retriever had a lump in his mouth that was diagnosed as cancerous at 5 months old. But, the key is diagnosed - he had xrays and a sample taken for testing to confirm that it was cancer. On his 6 month birthday he had a mandibulectomy operation, removing the front half of his bottom jaw. He didn’t have any reconstruction or wiring done, the just chopped the front half off! He spent 3 days in the vet hospital and then was able to come home. We had to hand feed him mushed up food for about a week, and he wore the cone of shame for about 3 weeks.
Within a month he was back to life as normal. He is as happy and kind and wonderful as any other golden retriever. The only thing he can’t do if pick things up front on, he just has to turn his head to the side and use his paws a bit sometimes. The operation was completely curative and we just celebrated his 3rd birthday.
If you have a look on Instagram under the hashtag mandibulectomy you can find plenty of dogs who have had similar experiences (although there are some gruesome photos so it isn’t for the faint hearted).

Mumsymumphy · 27/03/2019 22:57

Wait...what??? "Can't do the xray till Friday but can pts today." Wow. I'd be cancelling that booked x-ray & my registration at that vets. What sort of vet thinks and says that? Without any further tests?

Your dog is gorgeous!

LakieLady · 27/03/2019 23:02

Definitely get a 2nd opinion, from another practice. Your vet sounds crazy.

Beautiful puppy, I love border terriers. (I would have had border terriers, but my ex didn't like them, so we got a lakeland instead and I'm addicted to bloody lakies now).

I really hope you get some better news soon, it's a heart breaking business.

Orlandointhewilderness · 27/03/2019 23:04

yep second opinion. if she is in no pain, can eat drink etc the PTS seems a bit hasty. I do agree with Bertram though - serious surgery should always be thought about very carefully. I have seen a few cases on supervet that have not sat right with me.

Honeyroar · 27/03/2019 23:12

google Pet999. It's in Mossley, near Ashton under Lyne, and is a 24 hour emergency vets that is open overnight. Theyd probably X-ray the pup tonight.

CanuckBC · 27/03/2019 23:14

@DontCallMeShitley thank you for explaining who he is, I am not from there so had no idea:)

@NewYoiker my own pup had been limping off and on for months. Originally thought to be from an injury from playing. Due to her not healing and getting worse and my own vet not knowing he sent me to a specialist. At no point did he say she’s not healing let’s just PTS!!! It turned out she had Osteo Chontridis Desicon Lesions on both shoulders. Basically the cartilage separates from the bone. She had surgery on both and is fine:)

That is what a good vet does! He took x-rays and couldn’t figure it out himself so sent us on!! Yours is brutal. Your dogs quality of life is still excellent. The lump came after a known traumatic incident of being attached so could be related! An abscess or cyst or the like. To go immediately to PTS without investigation is so wrong! I would cancel the x-ray and just go to another not associated vet clinic or to a specialist clinic if there is a near by one.

WellErrr · 27/03/2019 23:17

Poor pup - def find out what you’re dealing with.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 27/03/2019 23:21

I too would pts rather than put a dog through major surgery. I would X-ray first though.

Honeyroar · 27/03/2019 23:22

That's the Pet999 contacts. I've never used them, but it's useful to know, and in the Manchester area.

Any vets around? Massive ethical issues
tabulahrasa · 27/03/2019 23:26

“He then said he couldn't fit her in for an x ray until Friday but could put her down today”

What the hell?

I was going to say, practice vets are basically GPs and it’s totally normal to refer on to a specialist if they either don’t know what something is or they think it could be something serious.

But it’s not normal to offer to PTS a very young animal with something that’s not even diagnosed yet!!

mrsstephens89 · 27/03/2019 23:28

Please please please make putting her to sleep the final option if the situation turns out to be dire.
What a gorgeous precious thing she is

BadPennyNoBiscuit · 27/03/2019 23:29

Whether or not I'd put dog through major surgery would depend on the dog, its age, and the prognosis.

Justaboy · 27/03/2019 23:31

I am not a vet but this does seem a very poor diagonistc sequence from him it it were me a deffo a second opinion. Sorry can't help with an aternative vet practice as I'm sounth of you by quite some way but i'm sure someoine knows of one up there.

FWIW i think the cancer idea is well, poppycock!

Pinkbells · 27/03/2019 23:36

I'd suggest a new vet, and very thorough investigations before you even think about the options available. Lovely dog, I hope it all works out Flowers

YogaWannabe · 27/03/2019 23:38

Wtf!? That vet sounds insane!!
Never ever go back to him, report him too!
Get a new vet, that’s not normal behavior.

IAmNotAWitch · 27/03/2019 23:39

That seems a bit extreme to me. I would definitely change vets and get the x-ray done somewhere else for a second opinion.

A lump/bump that doesn't seem to be causing any pain or problems (she is eating fine) and the only options are PTS or jaw removal?

Jeez, my cat always has some sort of weird shit going on (we too have experienced the mystery illness caused by displeasure at a change of food).

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