To think this could be the end of brexit as mps take control of the process from the PM

[quittinaeete]

Theresa may now really cant go for a hard brexit, anyone else think it's brexit cancelled?

I suspect that Russia will smuggle in weapons and provide covert training (spetznaz) for no other reason than the fact they seem to enjoy destabilizing countries.

And they called Osborne’s spreadsheet ‘Project Fear’

I am not a leaver, however I do believe that there will be some kind of civil war. My family in the UK say there is a undercurrent of discontent from the leavers

Ok - so you're not actually here to know that for yourself? There is an undercurrent of racism, intolerance, violent hate speech, Little Britain-ism and plain old knuckle-dragging thuggery. You can find most of it in the comments section of the Daily Mail or Express.
Loud mouth keyboard warriors who didn't even get off their gammon arses to support Farage's Long Walk to Indifference

If Brexit is cancelled I'll never vote again

Good

I am at the threat to remainers of quaking in their boots. Fighting talk, that is

If I'm honest I suppose I voted in a way for myself and my family. I always do

Yeah, I do as well. What was it though about leaving that you thought would benefit you and your family though? There must have been something surely?

This sits uneasy with me for many reasons. I do remember there was a promise before the referendum that whatever the outcome, it would be honoured so not honouring it I find troubling and it does seem undemocratic.

I know there will be responses about the good of the country but does that ‘trump’ a democratic vote? That’s one of the things I have been wrestling with. (not that I can change anything anyway).

Look, this argument might stand up if the referendum had been above board at the time, was legally binding, and there were conditions set out before it for what constitutes an acceptable majority to take action.

Not enacting a flawed vote, based on outright lies, that won with a small majority does not fly in the face of democracy, it upholds it. This seems to be a favoured argument for so many, but honestly it is really nonsensical.

As was already said up thread, democracy is not the same thing as majority rule. Holding to a vote that happened before all the implications were truly understood, based on a small majority of the turnout (not a majority of the population) is utter lunacy, and actually undermines democracy.

noblegiraffe

Look at history around the world, it is totally plausible.

I must admit I’m quite surprised at the “I’m alright Jack” attitude about voting Tory and benefits. Anyone at any time could fall ill, lose their job, and need some help from the state through tough times. Where would you be if it happened to you and the benefits were all slashed and you’d voted for it?

I think everyone should have to be able to name six UK MEPs before they can vote in another referendum.

I was/am laughing my socks off at how so many people who couldn't actually name their own MEP voting to stay!

Bad enough not knowing and voting to leave but actually voting to stay when you can't even christen local MEPs!

Silly sods.

I voted leave because I don't want free movement... I figured we would have more control over our borders. I would like a system like Australia really.

I voted leave as I was promised more cash that we can use for ourselves.

I figured we could make our own rules about agriculture, environment. Eu is great and if it's so great, can't we just keep the good rules? Etc

They were my main reasons really.

Not a massive push though. I wish there was never a vote offered. Remain did nothing to sell it to me and the "them vs us" stuff put me off asking more questions at the time

YouBumder - it astonishes me too. I don't much care for wishing ill on people so I'll just hope that they never find themselves on the wrong side of the Welfare system under this government. I suppose they just can't imagine it happening to them.
It can, it does, it might. Think about it.

Politicians have cut child trust funds, disability allowances and allowances for kids in Sixth Form amongst other stuff

They also slashed bereavement benefits for widows and widowers under the cloak of pretending they cared because they removed the age limit for childfree widows and widowers.

It can, it does, it might. Think about it

Exactly. I never thought I’d ever be on the DLA rollercoaster for example with one of my children...yet here I am.

Peanut - the ending of EU free movement will do nothing for immigration. There will be more Brazilians and Nigerians than Dutch and Polish.

What cash? It’s not you that gets to decide but 650 people in London called MPs.

EU rules on agriculture are heavy weighted in support of the environmental protection. In the 70’s UK farmers removed thousands of miles of hedges and hundreds of acres of trees to intensify farming.

I voted leave as I was promised more cash that we can use for ourselves.

Even if the more cash promise had any truth to it, doesn't the long term purposeful underfunding of the NHS (one example) make you see that even if the government had more cash, they wouldn't be doing anything with it that would benefit any of the ordinary people?

The "I'm alright Jack" attitude is sickening. You just heard what you wanted to hear. And NOW, with 4 days to go, you start asking questions.

If people around you are not OK that will eventually affect you. Crime will rise, illness will rise and general health will decline, services will be affected. Eventually that will impact on your standard of life, and at that point, the fact you have no desire to live in Italy will be little comfort.

I voted for people worse off than me, and for my kids.

I really, really hope that this is true, that Brexit is halted and that the politicians take a long, hard look at why so many of the electorate voted to Leave. And then put in place some seriously overdue mechanisms for equality in the UK so that there's no so much disparity between the rich and poor. It's disgraceful.

The added benefit (for me anyway), will be that we don't have to keep talking endlessly about it. Wittering on and on... one nasty spiralling thread after another.

Please, please let it be true.

Peanut, the UK govt had the freedom to introduce more stringent immigration laws (as has been done in other EU countries), but didn't do so. The EU weren't forcing them into anything. This was another great lie of the Leave campaign.

Our NHS has nearly 25% of workers from outside the UK. We can't cope without these workers and can't replace them with UK people either. The Tories have cut help for UK people training in nursing and trying to make junior doctors work longer hours. If we Brexit, Trump wants to sell us overpriced US medicines that can cost many times more than the EU price.

Oh I am well aware I might need one of those benefits or universal credit. It might well happen. But I have seen so many people abuse the benefit system it makes it difficult to like the system and want to keep it in its current form.

The leave resistance will slowly grow, and collect captured British military equipment, in exactly the same way as every other civil war.

Look, we all know Leave voters. My neighbour will definitely be pissed off if we don’t leave, but he’s not going to stick on camo gear and take on the RAF. Neither is my nan.

I think it is only a minority of Brexiteers who have threatened violence to be fair krusty.
I think there were quite a few of the older generation voted Brexit because they remember the UK joining the common market & felt increasingly uneasy about increasing political alliance & so many of the UK ‘s votes not carrying any weight.
They were also concerned that the EU is ruled by the European commission ,membership of which seemed to be dependant on candidates accepting the idea of ever closer political union. Viewed as increasingly undemocratic with the views of those who do not seek closer union increasingly ignored.

Concern with what happened to fishing industry by Spanish trawlers fishing here and underselling (able to do so due to lower cost) & so on so I would not deem every brexiteer to be a mindless, racist thug.

I still feel uneasy about a second referendum- a promise was made.
I think many people thought that the EU would be tough negotiators & that it would be difficult to unravel but perhaps not the chaos that would ensue in parliament. The rules of the EU state no free trade if in the Customs Union. Remaining in the customs union means still governed by the EU so I’m not sure that leave voters were expecting that option.

I think there were many people with legitimate worries. I could go on but need to go to bed - got some horrible viruswhich is the only reason I’m up.

Night all.

I figured we could make our own rules about agriculture, environment. Eu is great and if it's so great, can't we just keep the good rules? Etc

This won't really work though. The EU will remain our principal trading partner as trade is done predominantly on a geographic basis. It costs more to transport from further afield. If you look at what is happening to trade around the globe, regional blocs are on the increase. If we want to continue trading with the EU, we have to follow their regulations or UK products will not be accepted for sale there.

The other scenario is that you could reduce health and safety regulations etc. That would mean that you could import cheaper goods and food products from abroad as you were willing to accept lower standards. That's the whole fuss about food imports from the US. We could get cheap chicken, but US food regulations allow for the use of many chemicals and additives that are banned from the EU because they are not considered safe. Equally, you could get cheap toys from China which would be available at a lower price because they wouldn't have to meet stringent EU safety regulations. Of course, parts might fall off and choke your child.

This sort of lowering of regulations wouldn't benefit UK producers either, as we dont' have the same economies of scale of manufacturing that China and the US have, so couldn't produce the same cheap products. It would actually have the effect of reducing UK manufacturing (even the only pro-Brexit economists admit that UK manufacturing would be all but wiped out).

I think it is absolutely marvellous that all of these leave voters wouldn't vote again if Brexit were to be cancelled. So that would be fewer leave voters if another referendum were to be called and that can only be good.

Please don't vote again is all that I can say to them. Their lack of votes will be no sad loss.

Can they really not see the flaw in what they are saying? Are they really that thick?

I hope Brexit is cancelled. We need to revoke the ridiculous Article 50. Invoking it without a plan in place that had any sort of cross-party support was foolhardiness by TM. She is paying the price for that now. Unfortunately, millions of other people will also pay that price in the end.

It sounds to me like the Bexiteers are seriously rattled tonight. I have a feeling that they are now regretting rejecting the WA, and the reality that they squandered their best opportunity is now starting to dawn on them....

Maybe you lot have turned me... damn it, was not expecting that on a mumsnet thread! If only I had that time machine. Seriously thanks to those that answered my questions properly and didn't call me thick.

Night night!

I still feel uneasy about a second referendum- a promise was made.

It’s true, if there’s one thing we’ve come to expect from politicians, it’s that they keep their promises. It would be a shocking, shocking, development if they turned around and went ‘sorry, no can do’. People might stop trusting politicians if they didn’t do something they’d said they’d do. Like bring back grammar schools or lift the ban on fox hunting.

Where is the person who made that promise, by the way?