Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this could be the end of brexit as mps take control of the process from the PM

778 replies

quittinaeete · 25/03/2019 22:41

Theresa may now really cant go for a hard brexit, anyone else think it's brexit cancelled?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
krustykittens · 26/03/2019 00:56

ScarlettSahara I didn't mean to imply that all Brexiteers were threatening violence, what I should have been clearer about is that I deplore threats of violence from ANYONE and that mob rule is not how any democracy should work. An MP has already been killed and I find people who brag about violence and make threats when they don't like how democracy works, like AmericanDream, quite sickening, regardless of how they voted.

thecatneuterer · 26/03/2019 01:01

Whenever I hear people promising to never vote again if Brexit doesn’t happen I feel rather heartened that something good might come out of this mess.

Ha ha. Brilliant and so true.

Backwoodsgirl · 26/03/2019 01:06

noblegiraffe

Everyone is has their own opinion, however Sun Tzu in the “art of war” has several golden rules that Remainers are missing.

Lizzie48 · 26/03/2019 01:10

Whatever way you voted, I think it is pretty disgusting to threaten violence if you don't get your own way. Brexit hasn't been cancelled. If it does get cancelled by say, a second referendum where people get to vote on the actual deal or choose to stay in and they choose to stay in, that is democracy. People are allowed to change their minds in a democracy. No society should bow to the pressures of those who threaten violence.

I agree, it's shocking. But sadly not all that surprising. There was a murder of a sitting MP, Jo Cox, during the original referendum campaign. Do you really want there to be more violence?

Some comments on this thread, particularly from @americandream have been in very bad taste.

Lizzie48 · 26/03/2019 01:11

Whatever way you voted, I think it is pretty disgusting to threaten violence if you don't get your own way. Brexit hasn't been cancelled. If it does get cancelled by say, a second referendum where people get to vote on the actual deal or choose to stay in and they choose to stay in, that is democracy. People are allowed to change their minds in a democracy. No society should bow to the pressures of those who threaten violence.

Sorry, this was meant to be in bold. Blush

Gone4Good · 26/03/2019 01:12

The arrogance and cowardliness of the 'remainers' is the same attitude the British had before our War of Independence.

The best decisions I ever made was when I left the U.K. 46 years ago to emigrate to the USA.

FunkyKingston · 26/03/2019 01:18

Shit will kick off, big time. the like of which has never been seen in peace time.

Given the unhealthy state of most diehard leave supporters (50 plus, monunentally overweight, with sky high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and lifelong nicotine amd booze habits) i doubt they could make it the baracades without a breather let alone storm them.

CatandtheFiddle · 26/03/2019 01:25

Setting aside the lies, and the illegal activities of parts of the Leave campaign ...

A better PM than pig-fucking David Cameron would have
a) required a two-thirds majority on such a serious issue; and required that at least 2 of the 4 nations of the UK vote to leave (whereas only ENgland had a majority for Leave);

b) when the vote was so close (48.1 to 51.9 or thereabouts), should have been a statesman rather than a coward, and announced that as the vote was so close, it demonstrated how divided the UK is about the EU.

It was NOT a strong majority for Leave. It was barely over 50%. The results indicate the division in the country, not a unified resolve to leave the EU.

A better government than the Cameron-led one would have used that result as a signal to do some further work to try to unify the nation, not announce such a divisive set of actions.

ladyme · 26/03/2019 01:30

"I will never vote again"

Good

Decormad38 · 26/03/2019 01:43

@Americandream are you really Donald Trump in disguise?

Bungalowbeth · 26/03/2019 01:50

@gone4good, Christ you sound like the leave means leave dementia crew.The ones who spout how great we once were while forgetting that the world has ever so slightly moved on and changed since 46 years ago.

Zoflorabore · 26/03/2019 02:01

Civil war. Yes this one will go down in the history books.

The civil war of the fucked up Brexit- 2019.
Lasted for 3 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes and 32 seconds.

Talk about drama llama.

EmeraldShamrock · 26/03/2019 02:04

Would leavers be happy if the government helped the areas in crisis, invested in the towns in the north, tightened up immigration?
I can see both sides, to me it looks like leavers really wanted change, after been forgotten. Can the government cancel Brexit and honour investments in the NHS, introduce laws and control on free eu roaming, while staying in the EU.

WailingAtPaintings · 26/03/2019 02:08

I don't think it will be cancelled, but will be a very soft Brexit.

I'd love it if it was cancelled though, particularly following a certain poster's comments Grin

DioneTheDiabolist · 26/03/2019 02:08

What do you do about "radicalised" Leavers like Americandream? Is there some sort of MI5 helpline we're supposed to report them to?Shock

Or just MNHQ when they vent all their anger on AIBU?😂😂😂

Zoflorabore · 26/03/2019 02:21

Dione maybe we should ring 111 Grin

PBobs · 26/03/2019 02:21

I always avoid posting on these threads but there is some interesting dialogue here amongst the name calling etc.

What is being sought by many leavers is a deregulation of certain restrictions (like safety standards in food, environmental process, etc) and an improvement in quality of life. Those two are incompatible.

If you want to maintain a high standard of living as people have in the UK - and yes, even people living in relative poverty in the UK have a higher standard of living than people living in relative poverty in other countries (note, not talking about absolute poverty here as that is a whole different kettle of fish) - then you need to maintain strict regulations on imports/exports. This means being restricted to markets that uphold the same standards as Britain would want. Which is basically only Europe. The problem you have is that European countries are limited in individual trade agreements with non-European countries. That isn't to control what people do, that is to maintain economies of scale and protect European markets. Although I do think Europe has dropped the ball on that but don't think it's worth the UK leaving over. So, you'll still have to cut a deal with the European Union except now you're not in the vantage point of being within the Union for leverage.

In terms of the movement of people, I accept (although dislike) the argument that it doesn't affect you. Except it will when there are no people to do the work that British people don't want to do. And whatever you say, that is absolutely the truth. Baggage handlers, cleaners, wait staff in crumby restaurants are not stealing your jobs. British people aren't applying for those jobs because like Peanut1983 they're too intelligent and educated to do so. So, those jobs are being taken by people with a different skills set. It's tough - why would you get yourself into 30K+ of debt at university and then take a job that you know won't allow you to pay it off before retirement? So, how will we make that work? By increasing the minimum wage for those jobs? That isn't sustainable in the capitalist/modernist economy that Britain has built. You would have to change more than just minimum wage.

The money Britain would save from being a net contributor to the EU wouldn't go into the NHS, education etc. It would have to go into covering trade deficits, paying for environmentally sustainable energy, paying for maintaining listed buildings, subsidising agriculture etc etc whilst trade deals are being renegotiated. The EU has funds available that individuals access - beyond the government figures given above. But all of that is a moot point when Britain starts having to cover gaps in a loss of income from trade etc.

The arts, sciences, etc will suffer. Not just through a loss of funding - because I'm not sure where leavers think the money will come from to fill this gap - but through a loss of ease of collaboration. Science especially is a concern for me. Very little research that comes out of the UK is purely British. Most is now a collaborative intraEuropean affair. In the short term this will be stunted. UK universities have already been through a phase of closing and limiting their science departments. Some have reopened recently but in the most part, funding is still sadly needed for a lot of these. Much of the funding comes from European and British companies who fund specific aspects of research. This will be made much harder with Brexit and European companies might as well start funding their own centres in their own institutions of learning if they can't reach agreements with British universities. These agreements will need to include things like renegotiating intellectual property rights, funding arrangements, staffing arrangements, etc. That doesn't even take into account the need to renegotiate trade agreements for medical supplies and drugs from EU countries. We cannot trade with the US for many of these as the FDA process for approval is very different to the UK process - which is for obvious reasons (over hundreds of years of shared history) more closely aligns with EU processes.

British laws are exactly that - British. The EU makes recommendations and says you have to do stuff but governments are still sovereign states and still decide which EU referendums, recommendations and suggestions are ratified and passed as law in country. Human rights will not change - those are not EU laws. Maternity, paternity, pensions, tax, benefits etc are British laws based on minimally acceptable standards outlined by the EU. Those could all change. I don't know that any government would be that stupid. But they've been stupid enough to get us into this mess so who knows?

Immigration. The dirty word. I'm going to come back to this because this seems to be the big sticking point for most leavers. Leaving the Dublin III Agreement/Convention wouldn't actually be the golden ticket to an immigrant free Britain. There are still regulations within that that allow sovereign states to decide who to admit and who not to admit. The UK's problem would remain - once you know you want to deport an asylum seeker, where do you send them if France says no? Which, under the Dublin Agreement that France will still be part of is still an acceptable answer. Leaving the EU in this way will close the door to the UK being able to make any changes to the agreement and will in fact make the UK stand on the periphery. Denmark for example is a country who has managed to negotiate an exemption to suit them. Other countries have temporarily suspended their implementation of of the Dublin agreement when needed in times of crisis. In reality quite a lot of the rights that refugees should have access to actually stem from the UNHCR Convention on the Rights of Refugees which was first ratified in 1951. Most EU rules including Dublin III are an attempt to uphold these universal rights. It's a bit like human rights. Britain could opt out but then it would plummet in all sorts of development and democratic indicators that are also used to develop credit ratings and indices to do with stability, safety, acceptability of working conditions, measurable levels of democracy, etc.

In terms of non-refugee immigration I would be surprised if that changed a lot with EU departure. I don't see Britain suddenly demanding that loads of EU citizens be assessed and granted visas in the way that it works in Australia. Turfing EU citizens out is not a realistic option. If the UK is a net contributor to the EU in terms of money they are definitely not so in terms of working population. Leavers think that's a good thing. If we kick out EU citizens or make it harder to come here then that opens up work for British citizens. On the face of it that may be true. The reality is that many EU countries have already said they will allow British citizens to remain (some countries have stipulated a time limit and others indefinitely) - on the assumption that the favour will be returned and that the UK will continue to partner with them in things like the sciences, arts, etc. The reality is though that that would be going against what leavers in the UK want. So now there is a problem. Statistics show that of the 1.5-2.5 million UK citizens living in Europe (wide range to take into account short term residents of below one year and those in Europe on a more permanent basis) around 66-75% are of working age. So they would be sent back to the UK potentially if work permits are not granted - so you'd be competing with them for UK based employment too. Not sure what the rest would do but one has to assume that if elderly people are being returned to the EU from the UK the opposite is a realistic outcome for British retirees abroad. Again, nobody can give any answers as to what would happen here. What we do know is that there are in total more employed and employable EU citizens in the UK than there are British in the EU. So a reverse brain drain may occur for many EU countries who would stand to benefit from that in the long term. Potentially rendering the EU even more competitive in the fields of industry/sciences/arts/trade negotiation/etc.

Just in the interests of transparency, I am a citizen of the UK and another EU country. My husband is British. Our life has been geared towards moving to my country of birth - the other EU country. My British mother lives there with my non-British father. For me and my family this has been an incredibly difficult time. For me especially it has been very emotional - I have always felt European and proud of it and I am struggling with the sense that half of me now wants to divorce the other half. This is true for so many of my friends who are in the same situation. Including friends who have paid into the British economy for 20 something years and are now being made to feel ostracised and unwanted. The amount of paperwork and the associated cost they are completing or contemplating is amazing - even though nobody can give them a definitive answer on what will follow. Also, just in case my intelligence is being doubted by leavers I too have a science degree Wink. And an econ degree Wink. And a teaching qualification Wink. And a degree in a politically related field (too outing to detail) Wink. All from UK universities double Wink.

Zoflorabore · 26/03/2019 02:21

I meant 101 Blush

EmeraldShamrock · 26/03/2019 02:31

PBobs I don't have any degrees so I am probably star struck by your post.
Great post.
I am sorry you are feeling ostracised. You will be a great loss to the UK.

PBobs · 26/03/2019 03:03

Oh God @EmeraldShamrock that made me blush. Thank you Blush you're too kind. I included the uni bit just because I get tired of leavers asking for qualifications and facts and evidence and basis of opinions etc. Certainly didn't intend a boast. Smile My DH and I actually left the UK almost 7 years ago and live in Asia at present. Part of why we left was the rising feeling of anti-European sentiment and the negativity I experienced around my country of birth. We are not the most "successful" country in Europe right now and haven't been for some time. I never thought it would come to this though and I find it hard to talk about in a coherent and unemotional way at times. It's nice to know my post made sense. Thank you for making my day and reminding me that the 48% remainers still care about those of us who are not in the same position as the majority of UK born and resident British citizens. I really appreciate it.

brizzlemint · 26/03/2019 03:06

Nigel farage could live in a brewery and still fail to organise a piss up. You're living in cloud cuckoo land op.

3in4years · 26/03/2019 03:17

Prob, a great read during the night feeding baby. Thanks

notsodimwit · 26/03/2019 03:28

Great Post pBobs Smile you have wrote almost word for word what I was just going to write Grin but you beat me to it!

sam221 · 26/03/2019 03:40

I don't know why but I feel a little for our Prime Minister-she was damned if she did and damned if she didn't. I think this has rather become a poison chalice!
I am a remainer and am glad that brexit has gone this way-I would have hoped that we would just revoke the whole thing. Obviously we have to let this play out-but i really just want it cancelled completely.
The whole 'leave' argument has been built upon so many lies, scaremongering and a racism!
Also did anyone find out where the extra money for the NHS, as promised on the massive bus is please?

bumbleymummy · 26/03/2019 04:46

CatAndTheFiddle

Wales voted to leave as well. Only NI and Scotland voted to Remain.

Swipe left for the next trending thread