To think this could be the end of brexit as mps take control of the process from the PM

[quittinaeete]

Theresa may now really cant go for a hard brexit, anyone else think it's brexit cancelled?

Eartha
Hard Brexit in two weeks time is now the most likely outcome
TM has walked us over a cliff
aided and abetted by Corbyn

@Gbth, I don't think we should be surprised that those who go into politics tend to be self-serving given the opportunity we should focus more on strong institutions checks and balances on power etc

All humans have those base instincts we need to create the conditions where are the better sides of our nature's can flourish

It is all very embarrassing

The elites are now punishing the peasants
just like they are in the USA

Do you think hard Brexit is more likely than a long extension, talkin? Parliament said again last night in the indicative votes that the vast majority are opposed to no deal.

There have been no 'facts' at all to force another vote just more propaganda from the elites/politicians and the media all with very vested interests.

Apart from the proven fact of a leave campaign riddled with fraud and electoral malpractice?

No more Brexit, for pity's sake!

The NHS, the police, education, social care, the prison service, housing, pensions, foodbanks, the entire welfare system all have MASSIVE problems but have been thoroughly swamped and (conveniently) pushed aside by all the attention being focussed on the Brexit.

Mrs May and the Westminster politicos are obsessed with only one subject to the exclusion of anything in the real world that we have to live in.

I really don't care if the Martians come and take over.....

Talkinpaece no appetite for no deal anywhere though?

Although both sides of the House keep saying they don’t want a no deal, as they can’t agree on anything, I can’t see there will be any route other than no deal. The EU are obviously totally fed up with the UK. I read that a no deal could result in cheese prices increasing by 30% and meat by 40%.

A general election would hold things at bay? Though god knows what their manifestos would say..

Based on my experience on here, remainers do most of the insult slinging

No. We're just very frustrated by your posts which say exactly the same thing each time regardless of what we may respond about how the EU is not responsible for your regions incompetence at applying for grants and how the UK govt will not capitulate and fund your region once we leave the EU.

They never do. They won't. They don't give a fuck. And I am genuinely very sorry for that because I admire your passion to make things better. I just think you are going about it in the wrong way.

Last night showed it all for me. Not one of the parties is interested in putting the people before their party lines.

And today Jeremy Corbyn has had a pop at the SNP for something they did (in his opinion, many don’t agree) FORTY years ago. None of them live in the real world at all. It’s not their kids who’ll suffer, and none of them will need to rely on the NHS as they’ll be able to afford private care.

I read that a no deal could result in cheese prices increasing by 30%

I think the price of brie or camembert would be least of our worries in the event of no deal! But I suppose we could all just buy more British cheese?

Brexit are the Cheesemakers.

I will leave you to your mocking, You remainers are good at that.

Yet here you are still...

Andonandonan

Yep. The people who will be carrying out "civil war" will be the far right, not ordinary people. Do most leavers really want to be associated with the far right? Do they really think they represent "democracy"?! !

It was disgusting that a referendum went ahead without a clear guideline of what sort of majority constituted such major uphheaval, destroying business, the economy and forcing further hardship on this country. Definately the few percent was not enough. Something like 70/ 30 is a proper indication. The campaign was run on criminality and lies . Whilst I myself believe the EU is also responsible by ignoring Britain's need to control its borders , not being transparent or answerable about money is unacceptable, I do not think the referendum was put properly to the people. The brexit campaigners had no plan. You do not destroy a country with a no plan and jave now disppeared after causing this.. Nigel Garrage comfortably STILL earning money from being a euro MP and working at LBC taking no responsibility for what he has done. The country was roughly half and half.. it was obvious the leave needed to explain how and what we were voting for, but they did not. Civil war would be stupid if its over democracy. Even my brexit friend's can see it was not a democratic referendum to start with.

Surely this interesting discussion still has legs? Now the MPs have voted down all 8 alternatives put to them in indicative votes? The funny part is that the second most 'no' votes were against a 'no-deal' exit; but if nothing else is voted for, that's what happens by default! (There were more 'no' votes against the so-called Malthouse Plan, which is usually described as a managed no-deal: basically MPs are almost united against a no-deal exit, but are unwilling or unable to vote for anything else.)

It's a shame the discussion - even on Mumsnet - has become so bad-tempered. There are some genuinely interesting points around the whole process, but they are mostly lost in the tirades of abuse and storm of half recalled (and sometimes plain invented) 'facts.'

MPs are almost united against a no-deal exit, but are unwilling or unable to vote for anything else

I'm not the most knowledgeable about politics, but last night they could have voted for some of the options that were close to their wish, but not exactly yet they all chose not too.

There's so few willing to put people before party.

I also had to laugh at my MP pontificating about democracy on Twitter this morning. This from a man in a strong remain area who continually backs a no deal hard Brexit. There's nothing democratic about your elected MP voting in the opposite direction to their constituents.

So if...and I know it’s a big ‘if’, we do get a second referendum. What margin are we happy to accept. It may go in Remain’s favour this time but what if it’s by the same margin as Leave won last time? Bloody arrogance of David Cameron to call the vote and then walk away leaving someone else (who clearly isn’t capable) to sort his mess.

Now that Rees-Mogg and Johnston are backing the PM’s deal - not because they think it’s a good deal, but because it suits them personally career wise - I don’t think there’s any chance of a second vote. I think they’ll get another run at having a vote on that deal and enough of them are selfish and evil enough to turn even if they think it’s bad for the country that it’ll get through.

If there is a second vote then it needs to be a legally binding vote so that any of the same irregularities could be dealt with. They can’t from the last one as it wasn’t a legally binding election. That’s the main issue to be sorted for me in the instance of a second one - we can’t have the same lies and fraud.

I think johnson's unbacking it again isn't he? Maybe not, can't keep up

Yes, Mogg and Johnson are now retreating from yesterday's support. Mua ha ha. Hope their blatant lack of principles bites them on their pampered arses.

Out of all the TV broadcast 'comments' I heard last night one made me curious, from Sheryll Murray of the 1922 Committee who said that part of the EU's preparations for a No Deal Brexit would include a 'borderless' crossing between NI/ROI. She further added that if the EU can consider this as part of No Deal then they could also consider it as part of a 'Deal' without using the 'backstop arrangements'.

Does anyone have any further info on this? I've not had a chance to research this yet.

The people I know who voted to leave are;
Terminally hard of thinking
Elderly and infirm
There is a danger that they might riot and smash up their own bungalows though😂

It's slowed down a lot recently - it's now showing October for 16 million signatures whereas it was showing March not long ago.