DH voted leave but can't articulate why

[DifferentViews]

Sorry if this has been done before, but i need to get this off my chest and perhaps get new insight or come to a better understanding, so i can discharge some of the anger i feel.
So, i voted remain and he voted leave. Up to a point, i am prepared to accept we have different political views and can move on.
Talking to him last night, i asked, knowing what he knows now, would he still have voted leave and he said yes.
Cue a long discussion as to why and really he has no real idea what he was voting for, or what he wanted. Its just so woolly...he wanted change, but can't articulate what that would be.
It was just a knee jerk reaction to not liking the current situation and wanting things to be 'different'.
Its just made me so angry that he would still vote that way again in spite of all the evidence that things wont be 'better' out the EU.
His argument is that we don't know whether it might be better, so that gamble is worth it, but i am really struggling to see his point of view.
Please, can someone give me some idea how i can come to terms with this, so i am not consumed with impotent anger at him? Thank you.
Ps this is not meant to be a goady post against those that voted leave, if you have a well thought out argument and honestly believe it, that's great.

Unescorted, that's a perfectly reasonable analysis.

@ClariceCliffe

According to remainers -

Most leavers are racist, less educated (aka thick), knuckle draggers, etc. Amongst many other charming epithets.

If someone had this opinion of you, would you want to engage with them? Knowing that they had already prejudged you as one or all of the above? Nothing a leaver gives as their reasoning behind their vote is ever going to be enough for a remainer. So, why bother?

This ^ in spades.

No matter WHAT leavers say to explain their reasons for leaving, the remainers will bash them for it, attack them, berate them, and dismiss their reasons. I have a dozen reasons for wanting to leave, but would not list them on here, just to have the remainers mock and jeer.

As has been said, many leavers are quiet in real life, because they are sick of the behaviour of the remainers, and sick of hearing 'racist,' 'bigot,' 'uneducated,' 'gammon,' 'low-class,' thick,' 'daily mail reader,' etc etc...

Most leavers are just sitting quietly and patiently for the day the UK escapes the shackles of the EU.

I agree with a pp, that the OP's husband is grey-rocking her, because he has had enough of having his head pecked. Don't know how he puts up with it tbh. I'd be gone if my DH behaved like this.

I don't understand why 'no deal' has any street popularity at all.

In the run-up to the referendum, I tried to consider both sides. I am certain the leaflets promised that there would be a carefully negotiated deal before we exited, if Leave won. If there hadn't been a promise like that, I wouldn't have considered Leave for an eighth of a millisecond.

As a proposition, 'No Deal' reminds me of the articles that used to pop up in the chat magazines about the perils of internet-dating. They'd detail how Amanda, a lonely divorced mother-of-three, flirted with a sexy Texas hunk in a chatroom. One thing led to another, and Amanda decided to join him at his ranch in America and make a new life for them all, with no thought for her children's schooling, stability or her own employment prospects. She got there and discovered that the Hunk wasn't a hunk, and lived in a trailer park, not his own ranch, and so on.

It's all very well that other people can have a perfectly happy relationship with someone holding different political views. Obviously that's possible, if you love other things about each other and politics isn't a strong part of your identity, or if you're both comfortable with constant debate. It wouldn't be for me.

Likewise. I'm dating rather than being in a settled relationship. It's important to me that anyone I'm in a relationship with is left wing and anti-Brexit. That way we can shut up about it and not bloody talk about it but just chill out and know we're on the same page. I couldn't date someone with radically different politics from mine because my political stance is important to me. What works for some couples just isn't going to work for others.

Re. the will of the people, the difference between the sides was 1,269,501. Whenever anyone says you cannot ignore 17.4M people, they're saying you can nonetheless ignore 16.1M. This isn't an argument that makes sense to me. There should be a solution that more people can find acceptable, rather than one that leaves almost half the voting population immensely dissatisfied. At the moment we seem to be engaged in the politics of "ya boo sucks, you lost". It's no way to run a peaceful country.

I love the leavers saying they won't say their reasons because people knock them down. Its hilarious.

They aren't valid, none of them are, you can't stand them up which is why you won't post them.

Same as the name calling claims, leave voters have given as good as they have got in any debate, snowflakes, libtards, traitors, quislings, enemies of the people, suck it up you lost blah blah blah.

The victim mentality brought us brexit, its still goes now because they blame the vote on the other side, and the consequences of it on others.

Belenus I totally agree. Every time May goes on about what "the people" think I want to jump up and shout "am I not even a person now?".

"Most leavers are just sitting quietly and patiently for the day the UK escapes the shackles of the EU."

See you said you had good reasons, and then you post something like this.

How does the EU shackle the UK?

Re. the will of the people, the difference between the sides was 1,269,501. Whenever anyone says you cannot ignore 17.4M people, they're saying you can nonetheless ignore 16.1M.

Me too. It was nearly half the bloody electorate. How can you just handwave that many people away and be surprised that they're upset?

“ I have a dozen reasons for wanting to leave, but would not list them on here,”

Give me a break.

Jamie - a third voted out, a third remain and another third didn’t vote at all.

Every time I hear the chant of “the will of the people”, I want to scream.

And many / most if the third who did vote Brexit would no doubt change their mind now, in the cold light if day, unless they have a death wish for the country.

If that result was a general election, it would be a hung parliament. It wouldn’t stand. And this vote isn’t determining the next 4 years, fgs, it’s for good.

I'm also with a 'leaver'. We do occasionally discuss it but we differ a bit politically, I'm more left and he's more right. I do think you should hear other people's points of views and their reasons because otherwise you can end up living in an echo chamber. But sometimes it results in me getting quite upset because I feel worried for my children's future and I still don't understand why he really voted for it. To me it seems he's fallen for a lot of conspiracy theories! We got together after the vote so never had any discussions about it pre the ref.

So often I try and avoid the subject because I don't want to fall out. We get on in every other way and never argue about anything apart from politics. I try and remind myself that in the grand scheme of things, neither of our votes would've made any difference and ultimately we can't really do anything about it. What matters is the day to day stuff in our lives. It remains to be seen whether that will be affected and if it is we'll have to try and deal with it as best we can.

I've helped out on street stalls for the Britain for Europe campaign. We're a peaceful bunch and tend to stand around politely, offering leaflets. It's made very clear to all volunteers that we need to be polite, non-confrontational and friendly. This sometimes gets reported on local FB pages as groups of aggressive remain voters harassing locals.

It's an odd one. On the one hand we're portrayed as middle-class, out of touch, elitist, Waitrose shoppers with children called Tarquin, on the other hand apparently we're rabidly aggressive and frightening. All that tends to happen is that a leave voter says "the EU is undemocratic" and a remainer says "actually MEPs are elected to a parliament. It's a representative democracy". And this is somehow aggressive, or met with "well I'm entitled to my own opinion". Yes, you are entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own facts though.

Leave voters on here have been repeatedly antagonistic, aggressive and rude.

The treatment dished out to some remain posters who then got riled up and reacted ( and then banned) was very off.

But the leave voters are the ones who receive the abuse in their heads.

actually MEPs are elected to a parliament. It's a representative democracy

It's a parliament in name only. Even if they propose amendments to Commission diktats, they will only be implemented if the Commission itself agrees.

That's the unelected Commission - where the real power is held. The parliament get to vote for one of them - the president that's Juncker currently. Only his name was the only one on the ballot paper so not much democracy in action there. All the other Commissioners are appointed without the Parliament having any say.

The European Parliament might as well not exist for all the use it is. And at the next European elections I guarantee it will be full of Eurosceptics who will make UKIP look like closet federalists. Italy's The League and 5-Star, with the League likely to become the 2nd largest party overall. Marine Le Pen's French Nationals, Hungarys Fidesz, Germany's AFD and more.

The institution itself is flawed from top to bottom and without reform and restructuring it is facing far more problems than the loss of one of its key net contributors. Everyone so conveniently glosses over the problems the EU is facing and those European economies that are in trouble, with even Germany at risk of sliding into recession, not to mention the rise of Eurosceptism right across the continent.

a third voted out, a third remain and another third didn’t vote at all.

Yep, I misspoke (well mistyped). Half of the electorate that turned out to vote. It's not a decisive victory at all.

There was a union rep on the bus once, talking about it, and he pointed out that he would not be allowed to call a strike on a ratio of 52:48. That's always stuck with me.

There was more than one candidate, although one group failed to name one, Martin Schulz was the opposition to Junker.

"All the other Commissioners are appointed without the Parliament having any say. "

All the other commissioners are appointed by the democratically elected governments of the member states.

Actually your statement is so full of factual inaccuracies you may as well have not bothered making it.

In the run up to the US elections I was in the states and chatted to a fair few Americans about politics. Nearly everyone I spoke to planned to vote Trump. When I asked why, it’s because they felt things needed to change, everything needed a shake up. They were basically voting for him because it was different to what they had before. Even though anyone with half a brain could see that maybe Trump wasn’t a good bet. I think Brexit is our Trump. In more ways than one.

OH and I take Brexiter predictions about what will happen in Europe with a pinch of salt.

There has been no domino effect at all, and no party has put forward any manifesto which mentions leaving the EU.

FrugalFanny
Agreed. I think the EU MEP elections will be interesting. They may well reflect the rise of populism. The EU is too unwieldy to react quickly to change, although Brexit and populism may give it the impetus for reform.

If Brexit happens, all of those who wanted to remain will be unhappy.
As will many of those who voted leave because their wishes are mutually exclusive and contradictory.

If Brexit is cancelled, those who voted remain will be delighted
and the UKs politicians will no longer have an excuse to ignore the issues that caused the leave vote
and some decent non UKIP MEPs will be able to help improve the EU

Agreed with this totally talkinpeace:

"As will many of those who voted leave because their wishes are mutually exclusive and contradictory."

There will be a great wailing an gnashing of teeth in the end.

Exactly, it's like Trump supporters shouting "you lost!" and expecting Democrats to shrug and say "fair enough" rather than continue to speak against the Trump agenda with every chance they get. Why on earth should they? Democracy is an ongoing dialogue and opposition is fundamental.

My grandmother was a lifelong working class Tory. My grandfather was a card carrying Labour member.

They had a very happy marriage for 50 years. They just respected each other view and voted as they wanted.

My mum voted leave because she wanted to stick it to Theresa May

🤦🏻‍♀️

But she is what people would describe (unfairly) as a stereotypical leave voter - no clue about what she wanted other than she was pissed off with the current government and it was her only way to show it!

Which is a failing of democracy in itself. IMO.

I voted remain. I found no argument for leave and don’t expect to ever find out.

I’ve learned more about the EU since the Brexit vote, and that’s because I have taken the time to work out why leavers are so desperate for this to happen. And I still don’t understand their argument.

It’s too complex to boil down to one question. It always was and always will be.

I mean stick it to David Cameron. Wrong prime minister 🤦🏻‍♀️