...to be sick of women being made to feel uncool for feeling insecure about their husbands female friends?

[Alphabetsoup4]

Is it just me?

There are often threads here from women, girlfriends, wives who have husbands who have a ‘close female friend’ and are exclusive of the wife/gf. Often they get told on MN that they are jealous, insecure and controlling for feeling uncomfortable.

Isn’t this a case of other women being a bit misogynistic towards a poster feeling insecure?

Why on earth is it ‘cool’ to be oh so fine with your man having as many close female relationships as he likes?

And why is it assumed that cheating only ever happens because the man is going to cheat anyway, it’s hard wired? That it doesn’t matter whether they have female friendships are not.

I don’t understand and I think we are in danger of putting ourselves down as women telling others not to trust their instincts.

Why aren’t healthy boundaries cool? I think that they are.

That’s not to say that opposite sex friendships are banned, but there is a healthy balance.

Unless a woman is being very jealous, not letting her partner look at another woman etc, then I’d say 90% of these posts are from women who really are being disrespected and demeaned by their partners.

Just feel a bit depressed to see so many women be put down for this!

Well all I can say is, if I had one of these platonic male friends and he got a girlfriend, I’d back off. I’d assume I’m the last thing she wants floating about in the early days. Its her prerogative to decide whether she had a problem with me and I would accept that. I would cringe at the idea of coming between two people. It’s not about sex even - it’s just being the “other woman.” The significant other. Like a bloody MIL or something. Urggh. I cringe and shudder at the thought of it.

@pa1oma I think strangely you would make the best of friends as you seem so respectful. I do think opposite sex friends need to be respectful of the relationship. Which always should come first if it is to have a chance of working out well. Backing off shows what a true friend you are to them.

The idea that any new partner needs friends to back off is alarming for me.

I had (note the past tense) a friend like this. Every time she got a new boyfriend she would drop her friends like hot cakes, not be seen for months and then expect us all to be around to pick up the pieces.

We’ve all - as this has been going on for our entire adults lives - got bored. She’s currently single again, on a European island where she moved to be with x number of boyfriends ago and bemoaning how she has no friends.

Jacques - I’m saying the “BFF” should have the sensitivity and respect to back off and give the one going into the relationship some space.
If nothing else, it’s embarrassing to be hanging round somebody’s boyfriend or husband.

Jacques - I’m saying the “BFF” should have the sensitivity and respect to back off and give the one going into the relationship some space.
If nothing else, it’s embarrassing to be hanging round somebody’s boyfriend or husband

So friend is seeing a new girl twice a week. The other five nights aren’t available because...?

It isn’t embarrassing to be hanging around a friend.

You might have issues separating sex and friendship. Not everyone does.

Paloma - I don't think you get what platonic means. For me going for coffee with male friends is the same as going for coffee with female friends. Going for coffee with any kind of friends does not "get between" relationships. The only thing that gets between relationships is....actual cheating. Which is the opposite of platonic.

If nothing else, it’s embarrassing to be hanging round somebody’s boyfriend or husband.

So you are saying we should drop our opposite sex friends as soon as they find partners. Bloody hell. Jesus wept. I give up. Thank god I don't know anyone IRL with this viewpoint.

snout ..
Chill, Comrade. I actually agree with you that "that appreciating that someone is good looking isn’t the same as fancying them". I've got such a male friend whom I met on a dating site, def good looking but I don't fancy him. And no, I haven't grown up in some Amish community; I just had my share of some entitled shit female friends of my previous partner, the kind "we've been together as pals all our lives, and we are forever; you are recent and, chances are, temporary". I mean, some tactless bitches, perhaps of the same ilk as the OP describes. I've seen some of my male friends having such women posing as their friends too.

I'm not against man-woman friendships, the good decent kind you and other posters describe. I'm against the kind which hurts the partner because there is this sexual thing in in, an ego boost for both, and where the two "friends" pretend that the put out partner is just "neurotic".

Pa1oma, I’m still puzzled by your notion that a man is some kind of territory that women have proprietorship over, and that there’s only room for one at a time, otherwise you are some kind of interfering third wheel ‘other woman’ or MIL!

I’m puzzled by the notion that going for coffee is problematic.

I mean sure if I started straddling him over a hazelnut latte, yeah. The best way to avoid that happening is to not do it, which is remarkably simple.

But then I also love my ex-MIL and still see her for coffee

Yes well even if I thought they’d was a remote chance that a man’s girlfriend or wife saw me as some kind of “third wheel”, “significant other”, “confidant to her DH,” that is simply not a figuration I would want to be in. Not remotely ever. I would cringe at the prospect. So so don’t go there.,

Sorry I have to go now for one hour’s yoga!

OP: I do think opposite sex friends need to be respectful of the relationship. Which always should come first if it is to have a chance of working out well

I stand by that. However temporary the romantic relationship turns out to be. A true friend will not want to wreck havoc in your personal life and at least try to show your partner that they are safe. To me it's just elementary tact and courtesy.

It's not 'cool' in either respect. Why do posters say this when it's so irrelevant? You (general) either have healthy boundaries yourself or you don't. Neither makes you a fool but if you don't then you leave yourself open to getting hurt.

A man or woman will only cheat if that's what they choose to do. Making somebody else (usually a woman/women) responsible for keeping your partner on the straight and narrow is just foolish. If they are going to cheat then they will. If they don't want to cheat then nobody can persuade them otherwise.

We don't own husbands, boyfriends, etc. Some women behave as if they do. Policing relationships outside your own is not your place to do.

Place the responsibility for not cheating on your partner, and the blame on them if they do cheat.

I have a close male friend who I have known for many years, it's platonic. My DH and he know each other but haven't met for years. He talks about his work, children, current girlfriend and exes, I talk about my children and work.

I ask my DH if I'm going out to dinner with him, usually twice a year, but only mention in passing our meetings over coffee. DH does not have a problem with this. I know this man too well and both of us like our friendship too much to want to ruin it!

I think the difference is that some people prioritise their romantic relationships and some people their friendships. For most people that balance of priorities changes with time and children and as the investment becomes greater.

Of course, some people have relationships that for whatever reason, they are not totally invested in. Perhaps they hold more value on their friendships.

And I do think that the definition of friend is different for different people. I wouldn’t consider a nice man I chatted to walking home from the school run a friend, more a pleasant acquaintance. My friendships with women run much deeper than that.

I don't disagree with you, Tinkly, the situation becomes vexed when a person in prioritising their romantic relationship, dictates that the other person in it does so also. It's not possible to dictate what another person thinks or does, only what your own response will be to that.

I have a very close male friend who I met on my first day of college and did a masters degree with. I was his best man at his wedding and our kids grew up being part of the family. I would never expect my DP or his DW to have a problem with it. We have never dallied once.

I've had male friend but not close male friends and tbh only have a few close female friends, having a lot of friends isn't something that interests me, I think I'm a bit of a loner.
DP had a few female friends before we met, he had always insisted that their relationships were just friendships but it don't really believe that. Anyway when we first started going out this group of girls did something to try and annoy me (make me jealous) thinking that I would find out through Facebook, little did they know I didn't have FB and still don't and DP told me what they had done himself (probably worried someone else would tell me), I made it clear to him that I would never be around these girls (yes I am calling them girls because what they did was very childish) I told him that I thought that was just weird and childish and if he wanted to be around people that wanted to purposely try and split us up that was fine but I wasn't willing to stick around to be made a fool of. The relationship with those girls soon ended. I was in no way controlling about it, just matter of fact because I really wasn't willing to be made a fool of and spend my whole time wondering if there was anything more to it.

Tinkly, what you seem to be suggesting is that those of us who have platonic opposite -sex friendships must not be properly invested in our marriages. Is it really so difficult to recognise that you can have both, without anyone being short-changed?

And I do think that the definition of friend is different for different people. I wouldn’t consider a nice man I chatted to walking home from the school run a friend, more a pleasant acquaintance. My friendships with women run much deeper than that.

Indeed. I walked home today from the school run with the father of one of DS's classmates, as I do on many Fridays. He's a nice acquaintance, but not a friend, and won't become one, as we have nothing in common apart from children of the same age. But my friendships with my male and female friends run much deeper than chit chat on the school run.

Policing relationships outside your own is not your place to do
Policing is not, agree. But one can feel uncomfortable about certain friendships, and this is what (I believe) OP is getting at. Phrase it differently: if you do something you know hurts your partner, would you not stop it? If he does something which upsets you, would you not prefer he put your emotional wellbeing above other considerations? In this instance it's a dodgy "friendship" causing jealousy. Is it not best for a man not to have such friendships? Shouldn't women, out of some sisterly spirit, be decent to each other too, and not cause each other some aggravation by cosying up to an attached man and pose it as friendship? A lot of posters said this is not what they do, fine, I believe entirely, but some women and some men engage in these wanky relationships and THAT is what OP is getting at, not normal good friendships.

BloodyDisgrace, Well, I had a very jealous boyfriend, we'd been together years and he didn't like my best friend at the time (female). He didn't want me to see or speak to her. I initially kowtowed and then saw sense and ignored him before dumping him. His emotional wellbeing wasn't more important than mine.

Even in my own marriage, if my husband wanted to have a female friend then I would either trust him to stay faithful - or I wouldn't. My best friend is male, I wouldn't drop him based on a whim of my husband.

Some people are territorial and far too proprietorial over what their partner does, behaving as if they have powers of veto. They don't.

I go back to what I said earlier, it's on the person themselves not to cheat. Most don't cheat. A cheater would do it anyway because they can. Dictating to them that they can't have this friend or shouldn't have that friend will not make a difference however uncomfortable the person making those demands may be.

I had to back off once, as a female friend. I met a dude on a dating site, he was interested in me, quite seriously, but I couldn't return the feelings. After a while, after he cooled down, we decided we could try to be friends (I said I'll try, but only if it doesn't hurt you). All was well, cups of coffee, dinners, chats about our dating shit - until he met a lass he liked, told her about me and she was very very unhappy about him knowing me. I put myself in her place and understood why, although I said to him "it's you she should fear, not me, but fair enough. She is more important in your life as a partner than I am as a friend, and that's that". Do I think she is neurotic? I don't know, never met her (although offered). Are they still together? No clue, haven't spoken to him ever since. Am I sad about it all? Not particularly. Would I feel the way she did if I were in her place? Yep, I'm afraid so.

What's wrong with texting every day? If it's to the exclusion of all else then yes, that's excessive but who monitors how often and to whom their partner is texting?

BloodyDisgrace

The scenario you experienced is vastly different from a friendship with no romantic feelings on either side, though.

BloodyDisgrace but with respect, you don't sound as if you were in any way invested in that friendship. Nothing much to lose there is what I infer from your post, so why wouldn't you back off?

That's the thing, we all use our own reference points in responding on this thread. I think of my best mate - you think of yours. The relationships are not the same.