...to be sick of women being made to feel uncool for feeling insecure about their husbands female friends?

[Alphabetsoup4]

Is it just me?

There are often threads here from women, girlfriends, wives who have husbands who have a ‘close female friend’ and are exclusive of the wife/gf. Often they get told on MN that they are jealous, insecure and controlling for feeling uncomfortable.

Isn’t this a case of other women being a bit misogynistic towards a poster feeling insecure?

Why on earth is it ‘cool’ to be oh so fine with your man having as many close female relationships as he likes?

And why is it assumed that cheating only ever happens because the man is going to cheat anyway, it’s hard wired? That it doesn’t matter whether they have female friendships are not.

I don’t understand and I think we are in danger of putting ourselves down as women telling others not to trust their instincts.

Why aren’t healthy boundaries cool? I think that they are.

That’s not to say that opposite sex friendships are banned, but there is a healthy balance.

Unless a woman is being very jealous, not letting her partner look at another woman etc, then I’d say 90% of these posts are from women who really are being disrespected and demeaned by their partners.

Just feel a bit depressed to see so many women be put down for this!

Who ever knew

"jade has Sam's jumper I'll return tomorrow in case you worry he lost it"

Was code for " did u want a blow job"?

MrsKoala, I'm so sorry. I hope you have some support from another source.

mrsKoala

I think walking to the train station, or something like that, is different and not really what I’m talking about. I meant other behaviours such as frequently chatting about random, unnecessary stuff by text and arranging to meet up one-to-one, just to talk. That kind of thing. I’m hardly advocating a segregated society fgs!

I have plenty of contact with other men but I do it in groups or as couples.

@copperplate you see that sounds fine. But if you or him started sharing intimacies, meeting for lunch, feeling attracted, I think you would probably pull back at some point? And if your DH noticed you were texting him every day, I think he’d be right to feel a little uncomfortable.

Sorry to hear that MrsKoala.

It hugely reinforces gender stereotypes – look at Pa1oma ‘s description of her female friendships where apparently you talk about tampons and lipstick – which are incredibly damaging to young people trying to figure out their identity

Holy basket of kittens. Can't she talk to her female friends about lipstick without cancelling years and centuries of feminist struggle at the same time? I talk to my female friend about ballet and perfume and male one - about Tudor history. The subjects they incidentally are interested in and are knowledgeable about. I don't think of myself any less for not being able to do DIY, be interested in rugby or wanting to compete with men in the field of law and politics.

It's not that which is damaging. What's damaging to anyone, men or women, young or old, gay or straight, is lack of tact and empathy, and refusal to acknowledge the existence of some sexual tension in cross-gender friendships and how this tension makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It's inability to conduct such friendships - whether you're a man or his female friend - without hurting the third party. Some posters here said they can, excellent, surely that should be possible for everyone then.

@mrskoala hugs and too, that sounds heartbreaking. Take care of yourself.

I think the need for constant acknowledgement there could be sexual attraction isn't the same for everyone.

I KNOW my dearest friend doesn't fancy me, just as I know I don't fancy him. We've both been single (and in fact are currently both single) and there's no change to our friendship because it is just that.

Is there maybe some kind of suggestion that opposite sex friends are a "back up plan"?

I meant other behaviours such as frequently chatting about random, unnecessary stuff by text and arranging to meet up one-to-one, just to talk.

But there's nothing wrong with this. For most of us this is exactly the same as meeting a female friend for a coffee.

Thank you all (I am currently just very angry as he is only forty fucking one and doubtful will last the year). His fiancé is happy he has a friend to share things with and at no point has seemed pissed off with our constant love declarations! My DH is heartbroken for me as he knows there is a part of me which can only be filled by my friend. A part DH and I don't share, our childhood, history, sense of humour, political rantings etc.

I'd take a very dim view by being told we could not be friends. I grew up in a mixed sex group of friends and it has been my norm to not only have female friends. In primary school there were 20 girls and only 5 boys in my class so the boys just joined in with the girls and it stayed the same since then.

Can't she talk to her female friends about lipstick without cancelling years and centuries of feminist struggle at the same time?

Of course she can. What I think is unhealthy is the attitude that says ‘men and women can’t be friends because they are intrinsically different. Women like tampons and cocktails and spa days and GIRL STUFF and men like rugby and beer and MAN STUFF and never the twain shall meet’.

Of course, some women genuinely do just want to discuss lipstick and Hello! Magazine or whatever and if that makes you happy, then that’s fine! Great! Fill your boots! But I think it’s really damaging if it becomes a set of expectations that you’re viewed as ‘deviant’ and ‘bad’ if you try to break out of it – as I said, it means that women in male dominated professions frequently miss out on networking opportunities, mentoring, good career advice from their superiors which are routinely being given to men, and end up never getting past a certain level in their careers. Men who go into the caring professions are viewed with suspicion (see every MN thread ever about male nursery workers) and may struggle to get work.

And it absolutely is a massive issue if you’re a girl who perhaps isn’t stereotypically feminine, who does want to talk about rugby and doesn’t like Barbie, and society says ‘this means you’re weird and different and not a real girl’, or, indeed, if you’re a little boy who does want to play with a Barbie doll and isn’t keen on mud. I’m pretty confident in my birth gender and this thread makes me want to throw my hands up in the air and change my pronouns to ‘zie’ and ‘zir’!

@Alphabetsoup4
I don’t think DH is, he let himself get drawn into too close a FF and it damaged our relationship

I'm sorry to hear that. It'd be better if he stopped because he knows it hurts you. And since we love the word "trust" so much in this thread, how about he tried to trust you not to abuse his good will and become controlling?

And it absolutely is a massive issue if you’re a girl who perhaps isn’t stereotypically feminine, who does want to talk about rugby and doesn’t like Barbie, and society says ‘this means you’re weird and different and not a real girl’,

Or that you're just a lying 'cool girl' doing it for male approval.

“Is there maybe some kind of suggestion that opposite sex friends are a "back up plan"?”

Well I couldn’t say because I don’t have any

I think there are cases though when people accept that nothings going to happen, but it’s mainly in the grounds of circumstances. For instance, “ I’m not going there because she’s married now with 3 kids. Her DH is a good guy” etc etc. It’s not realistic and both sides know it, so that’s the “boundary” for them, so to speak. But there is some inkling (suppressed or not) that if circumstances had panned out differently, their relationship might have panned our differently too.

But there is some inkling (suppressed or not) that if circumstances had panned out differently, their relationship might have panned our differently too

Maybe for you, as I said we’ve both been and are single. No boundaries to us being together apart from the biggest - we don’t want to

@bloodydisgrace sorry not really following your point?

forestafantastica
What I think is unhealthy is the attitude that says ‘men and women can’t be friends because they are intrinsically different

I think its not the perceived difference between the sexes that people fear in such friendships, but sexual tension. It;s not true of every friendship but it is an undercurrent in many. I agree the sexual stereotypes are bad, and will add that they are sometimes inverted: in some social groups a non-feminine woman will be judged and disliked, in others - a feminine looking woman will be deemed as inferior.

I think the only people who have these sorts of views are the sort of people who view their partners as property. My husband is free to do whatever the hell he likes. As am I.

you see that sounds fine. But if you or him started sharing intimacies, meeting for lunch, feeling attracted, I think you would probably pull back at some point? And if your DH noticed you were texting him every day, I think he’d be right to feel a little uncomfortable.

Alphabet, you see, I do all those things with my actual male close friend, but 'feeling attracted' just doesn't come into it.

For me, potential friendships with men map exactly the same way
as friendships with women -- 'slight acquaintance' to 'someone I'd like to know better' to 'possible/actual friend'. 'Intimacy' for me doesn't imply a swerve into sex, any more than it would with a potential female friend.

If you are worried your partner will cheat on you, is it really a happy relationship? Not in my eyes.

Don't be so ridiculous OP. Of course friendships between genders are fine.

Or that you're just a lying 'cool girl' doing it for male approval. unfortunately I agree, I do think there are far too many women like this, not even really knowing their own identities because they are way too invested in male approval. I do distrust a woman who says she loves Male company as woman are ‘too this or that’. DHs FF was like this.

Alphabetsoup4
sorry, I meant: you said your husband "let himself get drawn into too close a FF and it damaged our relationship". I say, this is a shame. He could have scaled down this friendship seeing how much it hurts you. He could have done that and trusted you that you will not try to restrict him more. People often are afraid to give in because they think it will be abused; what I's saying is he could give in on that issue and not fear.

I should go now, the cat is getting bored :)

@copperplate I think texting every day is quite intense, for any friendship!