...to be sick of women being made to feel uncool for feeling insecure about their husbands female friends?

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Is it just me?

There are often threads here from women, girlfriends, wives who have husbands who have a ‘close female friend’ and are exclusive of the wife/gf. Often they get told on MN that they are jealous, insecure and controlling for feeling uncomfortable.

Isn’t this a case of other women being a bit misogynistic towards a poster feeling insecure?

Why on earth is it ‘cool’ to be oh so fine with your man having as many close female relationships as he likes?

And why is it assumed that cheating only ever happens because the man is going to cheat anyway, it’s hard wired? That it doesn’t matter whether they have female friendships are not.

I don’t understand and I think we are in danger of putting ourselves down as women telling others not to trust their instincts.

Why aren’t healthy boundaries cool? I think that they are.

That’s not to say that opposite sex friendships are banned, but there is a healthy balance.

Unless a woman is being very jealous, not letting her partner look at another woman etc, then I’d say 90% of these posts are from women who really are being disrespected and demeaned by their partners.

Just feel a bit depressed to see so many women be put down for this!

Every man I’ve gone out for a drink or similar with, I’ve ended up in some form if relationship with

Cool. I haven’t. I’ve ended up in a relationship with me I’ve gone for a drink with as date, not as a friend.

*men

What message would that give out?

That we don't live in a sex segregated world and young men and women can be whoever they want to be and be friends with who they want to be and their gender shouldn't stop them?

Copperplate
I'm not pretending to ignore sexual difference or sexual attraction when I'm out for a drink with a male friend, it's just not there as an issue

You have phrased it wonderfully, I was thinking along those terms but couldn't put a finger on it. For me this sexual attraction, or even a potential (i.e. from male friend to me that is; I don't fancy any of my male friends), is an issue. I just cope by pretending it doesn't exist and that I am talking to a human, not a male, and mainly we go on about books and history, such dire non-sexy issues. I think to myself "the buggers probably like me for being slender and attractive, but if I were big plain lass, they'd have to love me for my wit and intelligence, but hey I've got them as friends so i've gotta love them now"

Spa days and mums meet ups..

Such stereotypical.nonsense

You seem to have some major divide between what the men and women should all be doing and with who.

Meanwhile some.of us will drop the dad off on town.on the way home.

Meet up with the kids at the park

Message to ask what the homework.was

“That we don't live in a sex segregated world and young men and women can be whoever they want to be and be friends with who they want to be and their gender shouldn't stop them?”

How “young” are you talking about though?

Of course DH would have something to say if I was suddenly messaging the DH of one of the mums at school - or whoever. He wasn’t born yesterday.

Who ever knew

" jade has Sam's jumper I'll return tomorrow in case you worry he lost it"

Was code for " did u want a blow job"

When I was having relationship problems, I couldn't ask my male friends about it because they would only have a male perspective, which could have been the origin of the problems I was encountering.

One of my very close female friends and I went out for dinner, had cocktails and she listened. She pointed out to me which parts of my issues were flaws of a male perspective and which were genuine problems. It was incredibly valuable. Later, my partner told my friend how much she appreciated my friend for providing that valuable perspective on our relationship and vital support to me.

Missing out on that sort of alternative perspective forces men and women into hostile, solipsistic tribes and contributes to inequality and prejudice. What a bitter world we create if we measure everyone by their chromosomes.

Isn’t the ideal somewhere in the middle? Not being blind to the risks and realities of having friends that you could fancy whilst being married?

That’s what gets me, women in particular being told that their instincts are just control. That anything less than complete freedom to have as many close, intimate fanciable ‘besties’ is abusive?

He wasn’t born yesterday.

So he'd have reason not to trust you if that happened?

Your projection is more intense than an IMAX cinema.

One of the things that makes me so angry about threads like this is that I think this kind of behaviour is genuinely extremely socially destructive. It makes it much harder for women to make any progress in traditionally male dominated work places, such as the law or business, and of course it means that there’s a mad stigma attached to men in female dominated workplaces such as childcare or nursing. It hugely reinforces gender stereotypes – look at Pa1oma ‘s description of her female friendships where apparently you talk about tampons and lipstick – which are incredibly damaging to young people trying to figure out their identity.

@Paloma, the stuff you are saying is totally bizarre and not normal.

I meet my male friends for coffee, lunch, brunch, drinks etc. I don't fancy them and never will. I talk about exactly the same things I would with female friends - careers, relationships, food, gossip, Brexit - because I see them exactly the same as my female friendships. I don't feel awkward or uncomfortable or like there's a "spark" there, because there isn't. Those friends have been friends for years and would have had plenty of chances to make passes at me when we went on nights out and I was single - nothing ever happened.

I love my partner and I enjoy hanging out with my male and female friends. You seem to have such a blinkered and stereotypical view of both genders - like women are only for spa days, mothers meetings and talking about periods, and men are only for romance. It's just so bizarre and 1950s. Of course if my male friends got a new girlfriend I would carry on with the friendship as normal, because I expect the girlfriend to not be batshit.

In answer to OP, I think telling anyone who they can and can't see is controlling and I would run a mile. You either trust someone or you don't, and if you don't, then find a new partner/work on yourself first.

Most of DHs friends are women, he has quite a feminine way about him and isn't into traditionally male persuits. One is a particularly good friend he was in Afghanistan with, they have a close bond but I really dislike her as a person. I'm not interested in seeing her or being her friend.

Most of the people I gel with are men. I have quite a masculine way about me. My best friend is a man I was at primary school with. We have been thru thick and thin together. Yes, we discuss our relationships with each other. Our partners have always known from the start that our friendship is non negotiable. He is now dying of cancer and we speak every day and tell each other we love each other. I feel like Im losing part of my soul. DH understands completely but has only met him 3 times - again no interest in a friendship between them as we have different things in common. Maybe it's because i'm an only child but he is the closest thing I have to a sibling.

Of course DH would have something to say if I was suddenly messaging the DH of one of the mums at school - or whoever. He wasn’t born yesterday.

This entire kind of relationship is just so bizarre. I genuinely feel sorry if that's all you've ever known.

OP: Although to be honest ALL my male friends would shag me if they could. Not a stealth boast! I used to not think not, but I’m now more aware. I am still friends but I keep a distance there

Tricky stuff, isn't it? Thankfully, I have no clue about my friends. I just blank that way of thinking out, being also slightly embarrassed of myself for thinking I must be such a stunner if I can suspect them of this. It just gets boring and awkward when one starts thinking about this sexual dynamic. But you are spot on: it exists, let's not deny it, and if we don't deny it it will be easier to understand why some women are uncomfortable about some friendships of their husbands. It's got less to do with trust, but more with accepting this awkward truth and being very decent and tactful to everyone involved.

Well I’ve never come across people who live their lives like this, I must admit. Nobody at all.

On the question of talking about my relationship problems, I think it would be disloyal of me to tell my male friends. I once did and immediately I knew it was wrong. He didn’t see me as just a friend and this was a green light that I might be available. His advice was to leave and this was coloured by his feelings for me. We have to have open eyes!

DHs FF was always moaning about her fiancé to him. I was very hurt that he also shared our relationship problems. She lapped it up, she loved it and ultimately shared these to demean me to my friends!

@forestafantastica, I agree. No wonder loads of kids are turning "gender neutral" or whatever, if their mum tells them they can't talk about periods/go for coffee with boys because boys are only for shagging!

.” It's got less to do with trust, but more with accepting this awkward truth and being very decent and tactful to everyone involved.”

Yes Thankyou. That’s what aim trying to say.

MrsKoala how desperately sad

@Paloma, clearly we socialise in different circles. Like Leave and Remain lol. I don't know anyone who doesn't have one-on-one opposite sex friendships. In fact when I stories about about controlling relationships I was pretty shocked because I knew no-one - 0 people - who would have a problem with their partner having opposite sex friends. At uni, work, etc that's just normal. I walk home with a male colleague because we get the same train, for example - I'd never once thought it was disrespectful to his wife, nor would I give a shit if my partner did the same with a female colleague.

Generally, I'm utterly un-bothered by DP's female friends. They are mostly partners of his friends and even if he is attracted to them (I know he quite fancies one of them!) he wouldn't hurt his friend like that, even if he might justify cheating on me somehow.

However, he is friends with an ex from when he was a teenager. She definitely does still fancy him (just this morning she sent him a cuddly photo from when they were together!) and I'd be pretty damn pissed off if he went out for a night out with her. I don't love that they message each other, but don't say anything about it.

I honestly think you have to be stupid to 100% trust anyone. Humans are all flawed. If the circumstances are right many many people will cheat, regardless of how much they love their partner.

There are mums meet ups; dads meet ups and other times when couples will go. It never happens that a mum will meet for lunch with a dad, for instance. What message would that give out?

Well, I don't know, but I presume I'm giving it out. The parent I like most of my six year old's classmates is the father of one of his friends -- neither DH nor I have ever done the mother/father group meetups, as we don't do most drop-offs and pick-ups and don't know the other parents at all well.

But this father, who lives a two-minute walk away, is often the one who drops and picks up his daughter from playdates in our house, and often stays around for a drink or something to eat, whether or not DH is here. (His wife is an A and E doctor, so works odd shifts, so I've seen her much less, though I like what I've seen of her, and my DH currently travels a lot for work, so is unreliably here and gone at the drop of a hat.) This man is thoughtful and interesting, and his job is hugely interesting to me, so though he's not a friend yet, he definitely could be in time. And no sexual frisson. Quite apart from whether DH is here, we are chaperoned by two lively small children.

@bloodydisgrace yes that’s not to say that I have dropped all Male friends. I ADJUSTED I think that’s a good word when I married. The men who I know can handle that the attraction stays in the background whilst we a keep a platonic friendship have stayed. They like DH, respect him, don’t push anything and don’t expect a lot of contact.

However not everyone is aware. I don’t think DH is, he let himself get drawn into too close a FF and it damaged our relationship.

MrsKoala