...to be sick of women being made to feel uncool for feeling insecure about their husbands female friends?

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Is it just me?

There are often threads here from women, girlfriends, wives who have husbands who have a ‘close female friend’ and are exclusive of the wife/gf. Often they get told on MN that they are jealous, insecure and controlling for feeling uncomfortable.

Isn’t this a case of other women being a bit misogynistic towards a poster feeling insecure?

Why on earth is it ‘cool’ to be oh so fine with your man having as many close female relationships as he likes?

And why is it assumed that cheating only ever happens because the man is going to cheat anyway, it’s hard wired? That it doesn’t matter whether they have female friendships are not.

I don’t understand and I think we are in danger of putting ourselves down as women telling others not to trust their instincts.

Why aren’t healthy boundaries cool? I think that they are.

That’s not to say that opposite sex friendships are banned, but there is a healthy balance.

Unless a woman is being very jealous, not letting her partner look at another woman etc, then I’d say 90% of these posts are from women who really are being disrespected and demeaned by their partners.

Just feel a bit depressed to see so many women be put down for this!

Copperplate
Do you honestly think it is healthy to ditch long-lasting friendships at the whim of someone who has just arrived in your life? And when have I ever suggested I am anything other than nice to my close friends' spouses? Being unpleasant towards the person they love would cause a rift in any friendship

Apologies, I should have said "one" instead of "you". I didn't specifically mean you as a person. You sound like a good friend and a nice person. But women who ignore partners of their male friends, or show some disdain as in "you are temporary" are the ones which is ok to ditch. After all if someone shows disrespect to your partner, they show disrespect to you, and it doesn't matter that the partner has just arrived in your life. All partners were one day "just arrived" ones.

forestafantastica

Thank you for that take-down of that horrible passage. It should also be noted that the character quoting it hates and envies other women.

It still amazes me that no-one realises the author was pillorying/caricaturing exactly the attitudes of people like the OP, not being supportive of them.

When I was at uni, there were some men I liked to think of as “friends.” Who was I kidding? Exactly the same at work. Yes, we went out in mixed groups, but I would never delude myself into thinking that it was ok to go out with one if the men for coffee or a drink or whatever. I did this once and it did not end well. I should have seen it coming. I just can’t be bothered with keeping up pretence

You can't think for a minute because you did it once and it didn't end well that is how ALL platonic relationships go?

Right now I’m doing a course, but I’d never dream of saying to DH, “Oh I’m off for a drink tonight with new male BFF from the course.” That wouid go down like a ton of bricks with DH. He wouldn’t have it and fair enough. There is no need anyway- just go out in a group

Why doesn't he trust you?

Plus I wouldn’t put the man’s wife in that position - it’s disrespectful

It is disrespectful to have a drink with someone? Would you avoid having a drink with someone who was female because it's disrespectful to their husband?

BloodyDisgrace my BF isn't married - when he was in a LTR, she knew about me, had no issue with me - we made small talk but had nothing in common. She wasn't interested in pursuing a closer relationship with me - neither was I. Much like some of my female friends and their husbands - I can get on with them but they're not my friend, the wife is.

snoutandab0ut
BloodyDisgrace did you miss the bit where I said my male friends GF is now one of my best friends?

Yes. :) I only read up to page 7, and not every word of it, and that useful morsel of information has escaped me, sorry.

Jacques - it wasn’t just once - it’s my life experience.

Yes my DH does trust me. But it’s not about trust. It’s about mutual respect.

“Would you avoid having a drink with someone who was female because it's disrespectful to their husband?”

How is that even remotely the same thing?

But it’s not about trust. It’s about mutual respect

If you find going out for a drink with a friend disrespectful then that's either odd or you simply cannot unravel sex and friendship when the opposite sex is concerned.

Again. Talking with men or women is only disrespectful if it crosses a line. You seem to think being around them is disrespectful to your partner.

Your view of men must he an entirely sexual one

Thanks, Bloody. And I do agree that the proprietorial 'Oh, hello new girlfriend, let me make it plain that I know far more about your man than you ever will, and as his BBF, I am in fact auditioning you right now' dynamic is juvenile and unpleasant. It just doesn't sound to me as though any of us on the thread who have male friends we are close to, do anything like it. (In the case of all three of my closest male friends, both they and I were long married/coupled up before we met, apart from anything else, so their wives would have been 'auditioning' me, if they were so inclined. )

How is that even remotely the same thing?

It IS the same thing. It's a friend going for a drink with a friend.

How is that even remotely the same thing?

It's exactly the same thing, unless your view of men is hugely and inappropriately sexualized.

Adding a third voice of agreement to Jacques and forestaf: it is exactly the same thing.

Hanging out with my male friends is exactly the same as hanging out with my female ones, except they tend to have deeper voices and more facial hair

Well I accept certain posters in here make no distinction whatsoever between having male of female friends, but I think for the most part, people most definitely do! It’s obviously totally different.

Would you talk to your male friends about your DH? Would you talk about your sex life to another man? Or any female health / physically-related stuff? Would you go let them comment on your clothes or go shopping with you? Hang out in spa with them? Sit in a restaurant and go through the cocktail menu?

I’m guessing probably not.

It’s obviously totally different

Only if you’re obsessed by what’s between their legs and don’t trust yourself

Well I accept certain posters in here make no distinction whatsoever between having male of female friends, but I think for the most part, people most definitely do! It’s obviously totally different.

With respect, Pa1oma and I mean that sincerely it sounds to me as though your own depressing experiences with male friends continually making passes at you in the past are (understandably?) colouring your view here.

I'm not pretending to ignore sexual difference or sexual attraction when I'm out for a drink with a male friend, it's just not there as an issue, any more than it is when I'm out for a drink with a female friend -- one isn't a 'date' or pseudo-date when the other isn't. We've all been married for a long time, and are in our mid-forties to mid-fifties.

Would you talk to your male friends about your DH?

Yes

Would you talk about your sex life to another man? Or any female health / physically-related stuff?

Female health? Depends. “What was that product that worked for you”, obviously not “god I feel rubbish today, can you bring painkillers” etc absolutely.

Would you go let them comment on your clothes or go shopping with you? Hang out in spa with them?

Wouldn’t do this with female friends so moot really.

Sit in a restaurant and go through the cocktail menu?

Well I don’t drink particularly but mocktails, sure

A lot of posters with male friends sound like you have some boundaries already, and are not too exclusive.

Although to be honest ALL my male friends would shag me if they could. Not a stealth boast! I used to not think not, but I’m now more aware. I am still friends but I keep a distance there. I know I could seriously annoy their wives by calling on their husbands a lot.

My dp knows about my Male friend.

I dont discuss my sex life with anyone.

I dont discuss female health issues with anyone really either. Except maybe on here where its anonymous. Although I am happy to listen to anyones medical issues if they are comfortable enough with me to discuss it

If I asked any friend about how I looked they would call the paramedics

Spa days? No thanks . Not my thing

Eat dinner in a restaurant sure

Cocktail list? I'm.not that up market. Woyod also probably be an ambulance job

Yes, Pa1oma I would - and have - done all of those things with my male friends!

Would you talk to your male friends about your DH?

Yup. And have done. I’ve also discussed my girlfriend (pre-DH when I had one) with another woman.

Would you talk about your sex life to another man?

I don’t talk about my sex life with either men or women! There are things I don’t feel the need to share with non-partners, and what I do with my genitals is right up there!

Or any female health / physically-related stuff?

I’m not sure what you mean. Do I talk periods with men? No, but I don’t really talk periods with women either. I’m not sure there’s much of a conversation to be had there. Do people really meet up with their mates to discuss tampons?

Would you go let them comment on your clothes or go shopping with you?

Yup. And have done.

Hang out in spa with them? Sit in a restaurant and go through the cocktail menu?

Yup, and have done.

I also watch rugby with my female friends and discuss sports, and gym and have a pint in the pub with them. It’s like men and women aren’t actually from different planets!

Pa1oma
Well I accept certain posters in here make no distinction whatsoever between having male of female friends, but I think for the most part, people most definitely do!

Well, let's believe them then. And that they are nice to wives/gfs. Maybe MN is just one big kind compassionate place. I do know though what you were referring to in your earlier post about some men trying it on with pretence friendship. I'm one of those freaks who didn't have any male friends until mid-30s, because of exactly that: I was not sure of their motives.

Bloody hate these situations where I stand somewhere, minding my own business, a chap, say work colleague, comes up all touchingly shy and asks if we can go for a drink... You feel like a total moron, thinking "why? do you want to be a friend? are you asking me on a date?", gather up courage and try not to offend and simply ask :why? He charmingly says the truth, nothing but truth, and only truth: "Because I would like to know you better". You then say, by now thinking yourself to appear a total paranoid cunt who thinks everyone fancies her : "well, the very first thing to know about me is that I'm married". The earth doesn't swallow you, you go for a drink thinking maybe he will be a good friend. By the tube the bastard tries to snog you.

See, none of my female friends did that (no disrespect to bi and lesbians here). And those men who didn't either are such treasured friends that I'll go out of my way to make sure their gfs/wives are comfortable around me too.

Would you talk to your male friends about your DH? Would you talk about your sex life to another man? Or any female health / physically-related stuff? Would you go let them comment on your clothes or go shopping with you? Hang out in spa with them? Sit in a restaurant and go through the cocktail menu?

I’m guessing probably not

Of course I would talk to male friends about DH, the way I would to any friend -- at the moment, it's my worry about his work plans to go a country with FO warnings and that would require a slew of vaccinations, and his mother's health.

I have never discussed my sex life with anyone other than DH -- apart from some comedy reminiscences about losing my virginity back in 1990, and the absence of sex education at a convent school in the 1980s.

I have complained about irksome aspects of peri-menopause to my male BF, yes -- his wife is a year older than I am, and it's not as though he's not encountered such things.

We have definitely drunk cocktails together often, occasionally to excess. He has occasionally paid me compliments on a garment or haircut, but as I loathe clothes shopping, and a spa day is my idea of hell, no -- I wouldn't do either of those things with a female friend, either. Come to think of it, DH was given some Champney's vouchers by some work contact a few years ago, and because I wouldn't go, ended up using them with a female friend of ours, and had a great time.

At the schools my DC are in, you tend to meet the other parents obviously. There are mums meet ups; dads meet ups and other times when couples will go. It never happens that a mum will meet for lunch with a dad, for instance. What message would that give out?

I’m sure there are some genuinely platonic male- female relationships, but I’ve never had one and genuinely can’t imagine it. And I don’t think I sexualise all men. I have a very definite type in men which is probably only a few percent of the population . But I just try and avoid awkwardness - for me and anyone else involved. Every man I’ve gone out for a drink or similar with, I’ve ended up in some form if relationship with.

What message would that give out?

Depends on your agenda right?