To agree with Piers Morgan..

[Science9]

I find Piers Morgan insufferable at the best of times, but I was watching him debate with a guest re Primarks new gender neutral changing rooms and I found myself agreeing with him completely. I know it's not unreasonable to agree with someone but I wanted to see if i was inthe minority by being really annoyed and worried about this and how things are going in regards to single sex spaces? I am a regular primark shopper and I usually take a big bag of stuff in to try on and their changing rooms have the worst flimsy curtains as it is- I already get majorly self conscious when the curtain doesn't fully shut (it never does) but the thought of men being in the opposite cubicle rather than another woman is mortifying for me and I am just going to have to shop elsewhere. I just worry this is going to be the start of losing single sex toilets and changing areas altogether which would be hell for me. Before anyone says it, I have no problem with trans people!

I would not want mixed sex toilets. Seats left up with pee on them? Skid marks not brushed away? Having to hold back when you watch blokes walk away without washing their hands?

Have you been to female toilets recently?

I just don’t get this thread.
There are numerous well known stores who have mixed changing rooms....
John Lewis,
H & M
Fat Face

And literally any other store that sells men’s and women’s clothing.
Oh then there’s many swimming pool changing rooms /Center Parcs.
All having mixed sex cubicles.

Why are people worried about this?

We need to find the root of why women are so ashamed of periods and embarrased about going to the loo. This conditioning is the problem.

I'm not ashamed of my periods. Quite happy to discuss them with anyone who is interested. Male or female.

However, I don't want to deal with them in front of anyone really. At least if I'm dealing with it in a women's toilet, the chances are the majority of other women have shared a similar experience. And I'm entitled to this privacy under the Equality Act 2010.

As for those saying they don't mind, of 134 voyeurism complaints in 2017-18, 120 were in unisex facilities.

As Blooper says, spy cam porn is a real thing and you could find yourself the 'star' of one of these 'films' and not even know about it.

The reason we have single sex facilities is for dignity and privacy but also to protect women from sexual assault.

As 98% of sexual assault is commited by men, I'm happy to keep us segregated.

The preference of a man to try on a dress with women who are also trying on dresses is not a greater priority that protecting women and girls from sexual predators.

Or, at least, it shouldn't be.

People are worried about this because of the increase in sexual assaults in unisex facilities.

The group most vulnerable to sexual assaults are teenage girls and young women, as well as boys.

The sex offence window is 13-30 with 80% under 25.

The group that will bear the brunt of this is teens basically.

Not that I agree with mixed changing rooms, I remember back in the 70s/80s a shop called Jean Jeanie had only one batch of changing rooms for men and women! They were bar style western doors with gaps above and below. Anyone could see in! Strangely enough, I don't remember ever being concerned about a man being in the next changing room then!!

*than

Instead of keeping asking why so many women do not want unisex/gender neutral spaces, why don't we ask why men do want them, why are there people pushing so hard for this?

The vast majority of sexual assaults, acts of voyeurism, rapes, are committed by males against females.

It isn't hard to imagine a nefarious agenda behind some of this very vocal 'inclusive' bullshit. Particularly when no one seems able to provide solid reasoning as to why gender neutral for all is a good thing.

People are worried about this because of the increase in sexual assaults in unisex facilities.

This is a fair concern, of course, but surely, perhaps security could be reinforced instead.

Having said that, swimming pool changing rooms and toilets are somewhat different from most store changing rooms.

Strangely enough, I don't remember ever being concerned about a man being in the next changing room then!!

Ignorance is bliss?

Also this agenda is being aggressively pushed by a group of males who are quite happy to issue threats of violence towards - punching; death; dying in a fire; and rape towards any women who even stop for a second and ask, "er... hang on... what about...?"

I wouldn't acquiesce to a man in my private life who spoke to me/other women like that so why the hell should I accept it from anyone else?

We need to find the root of why women are so ashamed of periods and embarassed about going to the loo
No we really don't , we just need to return to the days where women's wishes and need for privacy and same sex spaces was respected.
Incidentally, the majority of men prefer to use men only toilets, it would seem.

I think it's totally wrong. Primark has a big teen following and the thought of girls changing opposite men with just a flimsy curtain is asking for trouble. Guess where the pervy men are going to hang out now? Makes me shudder.

I hate mixed changing rooms with flimsy curtains, a proper door then ok. Gap has flimsy curtains I never use them

Is it men who don't want a third option, or is it the people responsible for deciding how many changing rooms or toilets to build?
I can't see any of them being happy with maintaining and building a third option, and, instead, much happier to have just a single facility.

Or instead of security we could just keep sex segregated spaces. Why would you introduce something that you know is going to increase the rate of assaults then work out how to put security in.

I no longer use changing rooms in shops at all - I shop online just because of the rise in spy cameras and the online sites. I do not want to be featuring on them at all. So the high street shops have lost my custom because of this.

I will also not use unisex toilets for the same reason. So would not return to any establishment that didn't have single sex facilities. Again, they do this, they lose my custom.

Our local swimming baths tried to introduce unisex facilities. There was such a massive uproar about it that they have backed down.

I'm involved in the consultation and my recommendations have been single sex male, single sex female, a family changing room for parents with children only and a unisex facility for adults only.

We're going shopping at the weekend. DD has taken a stretch and needs new swimsuits. She will have to try them on in the store to make sure we get the right size. She is 13 and loves Primark goods.

I am not happy at all about this policy. Changing rooms should be segregated on basis of sex. I will be going into the changing room with DD and standing right outside the curtain as it's the only way of ensuring her safety.

For people asking why it's a problem, why are people worried, please RTFT as ample posters have given plenty of reasons why. It's really not difficult to understand. We should not have to justify this any longer.

And again stop presuming it's all ok on behalf of others.

I once read someone (female) say that if self ID happens she will start using men's facilities as the chances are there will be less predators in there now

Lweji "This is a fair concern, of course, but surely, perhaps security could be reinforced instead. "

or we just keep single sex facilities.

OP you ask why the third option of unisex hasn't been added. It's because men want access to women's spaces. Are you aware of the situtation re women's sports?

Are you also going to install a camera on her head to follow her every move?

I send my DS to men's changing rooms alone. Surely he's at risk there as well.

I don't think OTT reactions help anyone.

I’m old enough to remember communal changing rooms too. The day I tried on a pink dress with a rara skirt and the entire changing room, including me, burst out in fits of laughter is a cherished memory. I’d far rather have single sex communal changing rooms than mixed sex ones with curtains. And I’ve never seen the point of single sex loos, they can all be unisex as long as they have cubicles as far as I’m concerned.

Why are people worried about this?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

It's not OTT reactions.

The BPS, whose psychologists assess and report on sexual predators have already warned the Prison Service that sexual predators will go to almost any lengths to access vulnerable women and girls.

Do we really have to make it easier for them and essentially make it permissable in law to gain access?

Unisex facilities are cheaper and it appeases those who believe that gender is more important than sex.