Circumcision

[muma19]

DP wants DS circumcised however I don't. I also have MIL getting involved and pressuring me. What do I do? I want to be fair to my partner but I really don't want him veg for circumcised. HELP!!!!

I don't really known what to say. We arent going to agree.

Urine and pre-seminal fluid do not come out from behind the ear, and cleaning behind the ear does not involve pulling or folding anything back. Still no-one has explained whether the foreskin glides back or is folded back. If it glides back, then the underside of the foreskin will never be cleaned. If it is folded back, then that’s hassle every time you want to wash.

But fingernails grow back, foreskins don't, so it's not equating like with like. It's easy to clean an intact penis - pull foreskin back, quick swoosh under water, done. It hardly takes hours and no nail brushes needed

I have never examined how the underside of a foreskin goes back. I have never needed to - it doesn't matter. It has been explained to you several times that washing it takes moments and is not a hassle in any way. All the bits that need to be clean are.

You are being deliberately obtuse to continue an argument that to any rational mind is ludicrous. Bodies do not need bits of them to be permanently removed by surgery unless there is a problem with them. That's all there is to it. And if for some reason - be it cultural or religious - that you feel there is a need then YOU should be allowed to decide what happens to your body. Not somebody else.

Breeze my point was that to clean behind your ears, you'd probably hold your lobe back but it's such a small deal, you wouldn't consider whether you were holding it back/lifting it/folding it...you'd just clean the area and think nothing of it.

Why is urine dirty?
Actually it's sterile.
Behind the ears gathers a lot more dirt from sweating and dust particles gathering.

Vaginas are not dirty, vulvas get sweaty and smell of sex, but there is a reason for the penis evolving the way it did, and that's to protect a highly sensitive sex organ, designed to be super sensitive.

How does it matter the means of retraction?

It has also been said that pre-5 ish the glans and foreskin are one. They are not separate. The skin is attached over the glans to protect it.

Erection/penetration pulls the foreskin back naturally which can be done manually.

Why is cleanliness the issue? Some people are hygenic some notsomuch, does mean we should start routinely hacking off body parts, that's not an argument.

Ears are very waxy and necessarily so, some think that vaginal discharge is dirty and over wash so much that the body produces masses of water to flush away all the soaps; there might be in some quarters lack of bodily education, but that's all.

By the cleanliness reasoning all manner of bodybparts should be hacked off,but that still doesn't give anyone else the right to do the hacking off!

Breeze
I have to ask,do you have particular difficulty in washing/cleaning yourself that you can't comprehend of a man keeping himself clean?
Do you not separate toes to get in between to clean and dry? Do you not clean your vulva and have to separate your legs to get in there with a towel to dry yourself properly? Lift your arms to soap and rinse your pits? Use a nail brush to scrub under your nails with soap.

All our bodily cracks and crevices need getting into and cleaning and crying, so what's the hang up with this one bit of skin?

I can't believe you really feel this is reason to cut it off do you?

I get that (having seen some of the states that young males go about in intimately) there definitely is a need for upping the ante around cleaning regimes, but that goes for feet, as well as pits and penises, and arses. Is that what this is really about?

I'm gonna get my sons arse hole sewn up and a colostomy bag put on. Because you know arse holes are dirty.

Florescentadolescent
...but then..you know..colostomy bag/poo?

Cleaning my feet means I have to bend over. Would have been much easier of my parents had them copied of when I was a baby.

I have to ask,do you have particular difficulty in washing/cleaning yourself that you can't comprehend of a man keeping himself clean?

I must admit I have pictures of bars of soap on sticks and scrubby brushes to clean a vagina properly going on this posters words. Scary when people can't be bothered to find out how the human body works.

OK gamerswidow if you are so well informed about the human body perhaps you can provide a definitive answer to the question I have been asking with regards to whether the foreskin is pulled back or actually folded over on itself when washing. The fact that thus far no one has been able to give an answer speaks volumes.
I’m not being obtuse. I’m well aware that non-Muslim uncircumcised men who care about hygiene feel that retracting the foreskin and washing is sufficient for them to feel fully clean. I get it.
BUT I don’t understand why people keep saying to those that circumcise “all you need to do is teach him to wash properly” without realising that we have different expectations about hygiene.
Muslims have to remove all impurities from the private parts as much as they can before praying. If I was a man, and I wasn’t sure if even after washing whether the underside of the foreskin was fully clean or not, I wouldn’t feel fully comfortable praying. Just like I, as a woman, feel uncomfortable when my nails are too long until I cut them.
I’m not saying or asking any of this to try and persuade you, I know you’re satisfied with the level of cleanliness. But why say “just wash” without being clear on the standards we require.

Smother I think all of what you mentioned is different from the foreskin. And I don’t generally keep my nails long enough to need a nail brush

I know people object to the idea of circumcision when a child is too young to consent. But if you wait until they are old enough to consent the risk of complications increases, the recovery is more difficult and of course the boy will remember the whole experience. The responsible thing is to take the decision on their behalf as it’s in their best interest to avoid all that. An NHS doctor I met said that some of the complications he saw in cases of adult circumcision were horrendous with the penis swelling to twice it’s normal size.
When my boys had theirs done they had almost no pain, recovered quickly and now I’m sure don’t remember a thing. Vastly preferable.

Sorry should have said gamer chick. Got mixed up with a poster from another thread.

Almost no pain? That's sick.

You have not removed all bacteria from yourself before devotions, no, its not possible breeze

gamerchick did you mean me with the soap and bristled vag cleaners?

This cleanliness thing is a red herring.

No decent human, let alone God, would have you chop about your 'god-made perfect' body to make it clean. It's an unhealthy obsession.

Im not getting the obsession with the method of retracting? (Rolling or folding)

Did you read that the foreskin and glans are one? It is literally not loose skin, but skin, attached to the membranes beneath, just as any other part of the body.

I'd like to see people get their arseholes spotlessly clean!

What does 'clean' even mean?

If it's not defined specifically then it can't be done and its a misnoma.

I can't believe all this is about its dirty chop it off! There's a lot of arse removals needed. You can't tell me these men don't get skiddies in their pants!!

Ripping off human flesh is abhorrent.
And yes, extremely painful. 'Just cos we think it's not clean' is no reason to mutilate a beautiful baby boy, born as nature needed him to be born.

I would be erring on the side of caution frankly, seeing as god s word is widely open to interpretation! He/she is not here to speak specific dictats and even if he/she were, I would hope to live in such fear of said entity as to deliberately inflict harm and pain to an iñfact by ripping skin off it.

I would hope NOT to live in such fear

Like I said before, breeze's questions about penises/foreskins make her sound very naive. I think she's visualising something like a long wizard's sleeve with a sausage hidden in it somewhere! Given the lack of anatomical knowledge, it's all the more worrying that she and others are consenting to a permanent operation based on it.

I can't see why any sane, normal person would want to mutilate a little baby's genitals. Unless it is necessary for medical reasons, it should never be carried out in a civilised society.

gamerchick did you mean me with the soap and bristled vag cleaners?

No

OK gamerswidow if you are so well informed about the human body perhaps you can provide a definitive answer to the question I have been asking with regards to whether the foreskin is pulled back or actually folded over on itself when washing. The fact that thus far no one has been able to give an answer speaks volumes

Nobodies answering because they can't quite believe that someone who has given birth is that uninformed. The foreskin is firmly attached to the head of the penis for a number of years until an age the child can pull it back (not folded over ) to clean underneath.

Now because it is firmly attached and must be for a reason, does it make sense that it's cut and torn off at birth? Just because religion dictates, doesn't make it right.

I'm still of the soap and scourers here for wimmin. Fucked up man.

Male genital mutilation. It should be illegal.

OK gamerswidow if you are so well informed about the human body perhaps you can provide a definitive answer to the question I have been asking with regards to whether the foreskin is pulled back or actually folded over on itself when washing. The fact that thus far no one has been able to give an answer speaks volumes

I didn't answer because I couldn't believe anyone would actually ask this in seriousness.

When a foreskin is fully retracted, all of the skin is exposed. There is no hidden part or fold that is not cleanable.

If DH suggested circumsising DS (he wouldn’t because he had it done as a toddler and fully remembers the trauma of it) I’d tell him to fuck off. Sometimes children need operations for very good medical reasons but if there is no medical reason there is absolutely no excuse IMO.