To ask how racist you think the UK is?

[HateWarts]

I’ve seen videos on this before, I’m wondering how you feel about it.

In cases like rotherham the people in power were afraid of looking racist but weren't afraid of discriminating against kids in care as this was more socially acceptable. This is true, but it's not 'white racism' or 'reverse racism' at all. It's was all about class.

No it wasn’t. The Jay and the Casey reports both specifically said race was the largest factor involved, neither of them stated class as the cause. If it was about class then the police would have been turning away w/c Muslim women complaining about abuse and violence too but that did not happen.

Plus, where are the investigations into the wives and daughters of the rotherham (etc) men, forced marriage, slavery to in laws etc. Brown women are being let down by law enforcement and social services too.

No they’re not. Muslim women had their own very well funded DV and abuse charity in Rotherham that was regularly praised and given plaudits, but the only charity which helped the victims (Risky Business) was raised by the police, threatened, burgled and had their computers hacked. There has never, ever been a single suggestion that Muslim women were reporting abuse, being ignored or refused help from the police and legal system or social services. In fact their female relatives were their staunchest supporters,and were adamant none of them were abused. They even put that down to the fact that they were modest and chaste Muslim women so they deserved respect whilst they blamed the victims immodesty for the crimes and thought the victims were as worthless little sluts who’d led them on.

You clearly aren’t very clued up about the case at all, you’re making a lazy and prejudiced comment by assuming all the victims were in care and from bad families, they weren’t, many were from good homes and a few had professional parents (I know one of the latter victims, her Dad was an educated managerial level public sector employee with a great deal of responsibility).

But racism doesn't effect white people systemically, it just doesn't.

Sorry, but how the fuck can you say Rotherham was not systemic? I really can’t think of anything more systemic than every single state system in the town apart from one discriminating against them on the basis of their race.

It wasn't on the basis of their race it was on the basis of their class. They were kids in care and they were girls and not men. As I said 'cultural norms' are still failing Asian women and girls too. Not just those poor girls.

You might think I'm ignorant of these cases but I'm not. I have know co-workers and friends afraid to live their lives as I do mine because of 'word on the street' etc. I knew a gay Pakistani woman afraid of forced marriage, who couldn't come out or even run away because if she was found ut would mean certain death for her.

I'm not saying that all Asian women are fighting against it, many are staunchly supporting it. But law enforcement and social services are not doing enough. Just like they're not doing enough about child exploitation or domestic violence.

@callmecaroldanvers humans are NOT inclined to be racist at all, its all learnt behaviour from the media, family, society etc

The UK is very racist IMO.

yes I agree that it goes both ways

By far the worst racism I have ever witnessed was a group of black staff ganging up to hound out a white manager. For being white and doing her job.

The other time was directed at me by an Asian male dr who clearly gave the impression that I should not work fulltime and refused to behave towards me or the white nurses as though we were his equals.

Apart from that a smattering of inappropriate banter that harks back a generation but through stupidity rather than malice or hatred.

What I have heard a lot of in my ljne of business is "they're picking on me because they're racist". The truth is that they have put in a lit of support to help you do your job satisfactorily but sadly you cannot do your job satisfactorily, attend regularly and are often late. It happens a lot.

Humans are inclined to be racist. The fusiform part of our brain reacts when we see people who look different. Its then compounded or improved by learning.

And yes I think we are more racist.

Sorry typed my first comment before I saw everything you wrote. I happen to think this was about sexism and classism more than racism. But I see your point re: charities (though I question the difference they can make when the police don't care). Agree to disagree?

That was to Bejam

I've lived in London for 22 years, coming from a rural town in Northamptonshire. Northants is now more diverse than it was, but nowhere near as diverse as the capital.

I admit, I have made assumptions about people in the past. They correct me, I say I am very sorry, and remember to not be an ass the next time. I have also read a lot about different cultures over the years.

The cleaners at work are Bulgarian, Lithuanian, and Romanian. All are very hard workers, and all lovely people. I work with Africans, Pakistanis, West Indians, Filipinas, Indians, Chinese, all religious or not.

My workplace is hot on racism and prejudice, so I think it comes out more implied than explicit. For example, my Pakistani colleague was being given all the shitty jobs to do by an Indian manager, until they asked wtf they're problem with them was?

In wider society, there are prejudices. I have been called Honky by an African before (I'm white) and during the course of my job, by upholding the rules, some customers call me a white bitch or white whore.

Racism towards eastern Europeans is rife in London, along with towards Jews and to a lesser extent, Irish. More wealthy whites treat Eastern Europeans like absolute shit, especially if they are caring for their kids or serving them food.

My step-MIL has called black people "coloured" and I have said, no, don't say that. She always looks confused when I say that. Why has she not learned? My parents are racist. They deny my neice and nephew's black WI heritage and are always going on about Eastern Europeans coming over and taking people's jobs. They are both retired now and go to establishments run by Eastern Europeans though. I ask them, would you like to do their jobs? Of course not, they say. I don't get it.

I am ashamed of this country's colonial past and I don't think enough British white people know about the harm we did around the world, some of which we still see today. We still have this attitude that our culture, values, religion, and constitution trump most others in the world. It's arrogance. It forms the idea that some people are "less" than us. I don't think that some white British people have evolved for decades. I voted Leave in the EU referendum not because of immigration, or law, or funny shaped veg, but because the EU is mostly undemocratic and it costs vast amounts to belong. My parents voted leave to stop the Romanians coming in.

I think it depends where you are, and it depends on how you define it.

A couple of years ago I was driving back from somewhere with a friend and we decided to get a coffee at a nice looking pub.

The locals were friendly and we got chatting, they asked where we were from and we said, 'Wolverhampton' and a comment was made that shocked us both. This was 15 - 20 mins away from where I live.

I also think it takes many forms. My brother and I were booth visiting my mother when she was dying in a northern town where people don't mix so much.

On the way to the hospice I pointed out that he could buy samosas from the sweet centres we were passing (he lives in a very white part of the country so I regularly send him samosas). It obviously had not occurred to him that he could buy them himself because it had not occurred to him to go into those shops when he lived in the town.

I did go into the shops when I lived there and I was always treated very well, almost like an honoured guest.

I would not call my brother a racist, but there is a certain 'distance', sorry I'm not expressing this well because I can't quite get it straight.

Another time when visiting I told the cashier at the supermarket I liked her hijab brooch, she said thank you but there was something that passed across her face that was confused.

Having worked as a supply teacher for a number of years and undertaken few part time jobs and work placements as a student teacher I've often brought samosas in to work on my last day (If you are ever in Wolverhampton go to Uppal's for their veg samosas and paneer rolls).

They have always been well received but I have had a couple of comments, from, "where did you buy them?" with surprise that I go to a sweet centre to, "you can't do this, I'm Asian, this is my gig" (said with a big grin) from coworkers.

It wasn't on the basis of their race it was on the basis of their class. They were kids in care and they were girls and not men. As I said 'cultural norms' are still failing Asian women and girls too. Not just those poor girls.

I’m absolutely gobsmacked by the complete dishonesty in this post, it’s just outright lies. I actually know one of the victims quite well, I’ve read both the Jay and Casey reports from cover to cover, attended multiple public meetings on the subject and followed the story closely.

It was NOT about class. Both the Casey and Jay reports said it WAS about race.

They weren’t children in care. 1/3 of the children had some sort of contact with SS, but that only involved going into care in a tiny fraction of cases.

Jay recounted how fathers desperately trying to rescue their daughters from trap houses where they were being gang raped were arrested themselves whilst the child was left with her abusers.

A lot of them were loved daughters who got mixed up in something awful.

bejam
I didn’t say anything about East Sussex? East Sussex includes Brighton.
Rural west Sussex is quite different, and meeting people isn’t the same as knowing them.

The figures are from the W Sussex Website, that was a typo.

Very. Very racist and a lot of general discrimination.

Most of these comments are too political for me to understand but I was intrigued by the post and it got me thinking!

Personally I do not think the UK is racist from what I have seen, I do however wonder if white people are discriminated against and we can no longer be patriotic for fear of upsetting people?

For example, I heard a lot when the world cup was on about not being able to fly the England flag "in england"

Also over the years poppies are not allowed to be worn?

Maybe I can be enlightened on this?

More than I thought...

I’m really just waking up to all this as broadly speaking I formed a lot of my attitudes towards race in the 90s. Whilst still an issue in some quarters it really felt we were on a trajectory of integration.

My current line of thinking is this: wether consciously or unconsciously our thoughts on race boil down to the answer on where you stand on segregation vs integration . Segregation is ultimately the road towards racism and integration is the road away from it. It really is that simple.

Language and ideologies wether intentionally or not that drives division exacerbates the whole situation. Also and this is crucial some cultural practices and values are fundementally incompatible. We need to be willing to have discussions around these.

Problem is I think there are a tonne of people both in the cultural majority and the cultural minorities that tend to stay silent. Either you are a white person absolutely terrified to say a single word for fear of accusations of racism or to check one’s privilege or you are a minority who would rather just forge on ahead without reference to your race every five minutes.

The more we live, work and love alongside one another the quicker we can put these archaic attitudes about race in the rear view mirror. Imagine generations from now we’ll all have so much mixed dna from each other this whole thread would be remarkably tricky to unpack.

@SallyVating Even London is very racist. You might not see it but it's all there simmering. I've had friends being told by club promoters not to bring "their black friends" numerous times, the numbers of BAME people in some industries and across the c-suite is ridiculously low etc. It's all there, it's just hidden better

Alot more thsn I had fully appreciated. But Brexit has laid alot bare - and given people some sort of freedom to be more open about the fact they are racist.

The UK is very racist.

I used to think UK was tolerant and that was a good thing. But now I get that tolerance is racist bullshit.

Lots of Jane Elliott videos on You Tube explaining racism and why a "tolerant society " is racist. It's always the white people tolerating non white people . Ie racist.

Very.

Well it certainly exists and anyone can be racist or subjected to racism no matter what race they are.

I have witnessed all sorts living in London and was quite an eye opener, it's not quite like what we were taught at school or even what the media portrays at times, I've seen all sorts fall victim to others complex views on race. I also found it depended on what area I was in to who the victims normally were.

In areas that there were a majority of one race and there was a minority seemed to have the worse amounts. I think it's a case of one feeling threatened and one wanting to assert their right to be there, we as humans can prefer to be around those similar to ourselves and sometimes that includes culture, beliefs and superficially skin colour etc

Areas with the least amount of racism tend to have a " balanced" mixture.

Something that has always baffled me is the comparison of two racist murders of innocent teenagers in the UK. Stephen Lawrence and Kriss Donald. We all know Stephen Lawrence as the media quite rightly covered the story extensively for years and we still don't forget it as it's often looked back on as one of the worst racists crimes of the past 30 years. Kriss Donald was forgoton and there was minimal coverage. We never hear about him. For those of you who don't know, Kriss Donald was a white 15 year old boy who was picked up by an Asian/Muslim gang who brutally tortured and murdered him in broad day light just because he was white. The things they did to that poor boy were unimaginable

Lurker I remember hearing about that poor boy, it is interesting and sometimes quite sad what is forgotten about so quickly and not given much coverage.

I do think things like this further the divide even more, I do believe the saying "Divide and Conquer" is quite apt as it's almost like the media, higher powers etc want us to all dislike each other...