To ask how racist you think the UK is?

[HateWarts]

I’ve seen videos on this before, I’m wondering how you feel about it.

As a non-white person, I can tell you every country is racist - but the UK less so in my experience.

I faced immense overt racism/biases while living in the US. Europe (Germany, Sweden, France etc) also terrible. Asia has its own set of racist challenges and prejudices. I've very very rarely felt overt racism in the UK (London) in my couple of decades here. Ignorance towards racist issues and external cultures is also much less in the UK than in most other countries of the world.

Kriss Donald deserved more nationwide coverage I agree but FWLIW I haven't forgotten him. I didn't know him but I was working literally around the corner from where he was abducted(I had no idea though that anything had happened until the next day when the police came looking for CCTV. I passed his memorial on the bowling club fence three times every day for years and I still think of him often. The brutality and sheer evil of what they did to him is unbearable to imagine but the courage that his Mother showed when the BNP thugs tried to use his murder for their own purposes was so incredible and inspiring.

I am also local Jellybean. Yes his mother showed great courage in unimaginable circumstances. I remember how deeply affected I was by it when it happened - Kriss looked just like my brother who was the same age and I couldn't bear hearing the details of what they did to him for many years

I'm sorry, Lurker. I found and still find it almost unbearable to read about the circumstances of his death though I'll never forget him or his amazing Mother. I can imagine how much more painful it'd be to have a brother so alike. Poor boy. I cannot imagine what his family has gone through and continues to suffer.

yes there is but it isnt as obvious
if you are non white and call the police to say you're being harassed you wont be believed in fact they will think you are the issue
if you say someone has been racist to you its automatically "no evidence"

white women have the most power

NC but I would say very and that’s from personal experience.

I am Muslim and wear hijab and can honestly say I get glared at daily by men and women (white), been spat at and called traitor and scum. I don’t recall my youth being as bad as this because I went to a multicultural school, the city I live in is also very mixed. Even at work which is big on inclusion and diversity there are colleagues who make it obvious they don’t like you but know they can’t say anything without getting into trouble.

People feel they can behave how they want in the current climate, under the guise of free speech they can get away with a lot even when it’s hate speech. People like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins have sown the seeds of division and there’s no going back. Brexit, terrorism, deep rooted generational racism allhave a part to play. I would say it is white people from any background, I’ve been intimidated by 3 Polish men, from my experience Polish people are racist towards Muslims and Blacks.

If you don’t believe me, try wearing hijab as an experiment and go into say town for a while and let me know how you got on.

Sadly, things are only going to get worse imo.

Isn't the UK being fascist the reason we're having brexit? So we can take back control of our borders to reduce immigration? Ignoring all evidence that immigrants put more into the economy than they take and unemployment is so low at the moment but they somehow claim all our jobs and benefits at the same time?

Should say racist not fascist! Typo...

@SayItLoud1 no quarrel with you choosing to wear your hijab, but hand on heart I am a person that relies on facial expressions and non-verbal cues immensely. So if we were to meet out and about I would be somewhat on edge, I wonder would you interpret that at racism on my part?

@Dervel, you’re thinking about the niqab which covers everything apart from the eyes it’s not the same thing as the hijab. The hijab just covers hair and in some cases an abaya will be worn, you could still see someone’s whole face

Dervel-let’s hope you never have to talk to anyone over the phone.......

Or in the dark. Or who’s had a stroke or been to the dentist.

Thanks for the update! And yes I do much prefer face to face conversation than phone calls too. It’s less of an issue if it’s a phone conversation with someone I already know well. Also I wasn’t referencing a complete social paralysis simply that I have a preference where I feel most comfortable. I’m willing to bet I’m not the only one either.

@BertrandRussell really though? Did you actually mean to come off that combative deliberately or did I misread you? (Probably again through the lack of non-verbal cues? ;) )

BertrandRussell, and how is the person on the other end of the phone going to notice Dervel's body language, considering they're on the phone?

I was shocked at how racist people are here, having moved from another country. I am white but that seems to make the white racists of England think I'm a "safe" person to share their racist thoughts and jokes with. I'm really not.

“@BertrandRussell really though? Did you actually mean to come off that combative deliberately or did I misread you?“
No-I meant to come off combative. I really don’t like the hijab or the niqab- it goes against everything I believe in as a feminist.But I also hate people justifying racism with “oh-I can’t deal with this particular aspect of your culture. I’m not a racist- it’s just this thing”

BertrandRussell, it's not racism if it's an unintended side effect of another person's nature, applied evenly (e.g. being equally unsettled with talking to me in my motorcycle helmet with the mirror visor). I freeze up when I'm kissed on the cheeks as a greeting by acquaintances, this is the result of unwanted attention I received when I was younger, it's not Francophobia.

@BetrandRussel
“But I also hate people justifying racism with “oh-I can’t deal with this particular aspect of your culture“

I don’t think that would be racist considering it’s usually inhumane parts of a person’s culture being objected to. Let’s say it wasn’t a white person but a brown western girl calling out parts of the culture she found unjust in her country of origin, would you also call that racist?

I watched this in action last week (an interaction between 2 non white people where one was being racist to the other) - I tried the whole 'so which culture/individual has the upper hand and power in this engagement?' formula before I gave up and reminded myself that some people are just racist idiots.

Overtly racist? Not really. You get some loud, proud racists, but you can identify them.

Subtle xenophobia and low-key racism? Definitely.

Do you think sexism exists in U.K.? Some people would say it doesn’t. Yet as a woman I know that I have been name-called, felt fear walking past groups of men, altered my behaviour so as not to ‘provoke’ men, bit my tongue, tried to be polite to a scary random man or men hitting on me, so they don’t end up attacking me. There’s a thread on here about the abuse a posters 14 year old daughter is experiencing from grown men. I know that every women I speak to has similar experiences. And yet men seem shocked that this is the case, or sometimes think we exaggerate it or even make it up. Because they don’t see it.

I think the same is true for racism. It’s not as easy for a white person (I’m white, for the record) to see it, but I know from friends/fb/news/forums that POC experience it and why wouldn’t I believe them, just because I don’t experience it?

Also, it’s a fact that ethnic minorities are descriminated against based on their race in terms of employment rates, promotion rates, exclusions from school, arrests, police stop and searches, custodial sentences, income, poverty etc. There is structural racism in UK.

I used to think it was better here than the US, because, well, black men don’t tend to get shot by the police in the U.K. as much as in the US. But now I think that’s just because the police here don’t have guns. I’ve heard from many black people that they don’t trust the police and all their experiences with the police have been bad.

Not read all posts but just to add, other cultures can also act in a racist way in the uk. I come from Bradford. As a white female, Asian men seem to think I'm a piece of meat and can say aloud anything they like 'as white girls are always up for it' Still happens today even after the Rotherham case.

Also a white woman from bradford and on my way out of the cinema with a friend a group of Asian men threw rubbish in front of me and said "pick it up you silly white bitch" I walked away and they were still hurling abuse at me.. this was years ago and I still vividly remember to this day. It was dark but I was glad it was in a public place

@BetrandRussel I didn’t say I couldn’t handle it though did I? Simply as a preference I would be uncomfortable, I did in error think we were talking about the full thing. I get Burkhas, hijabs and niqabs mixed up obviously.

Now personally I don’t define that sense of discomfort as racist, and I explained my rationalisation for it.

SayItLoud1
Sorry you've had to encounter this bullshit.
It is definitely a scary time to be visibly muslim. My DD's muslim classmates are very scared at the moment. After Christchurch it is a very real threat.

And concerning low key microaggressions these are also very real.
A fellow white mum has on a few occasions made islamaphobic comments to me (which i have called out) her thoughts are very common. (moaning about Halal meat in school etc)

The media whips this up.

I am very saddened by it and will do what i can to call it out wherever i can.

I have seen white women giving Hijabi wearing women dirty looks (or worse) because they think it's anti feminist to wear one. Muslim women choose to wear them. It is not forced. That is a very colonial viewpoint. And ignorant. My hijabi wearing friends laugh at this idea.