To ask how racist you think the UK is?

[HateWarts]

I’ve seen videos on this before, I’m wondering how you feel about it.

[hdh747]

Well I have personally experienced it Therewillbe. And just in case you missed it, I already said in an earlier post that I have also witnessed racism in the opposite direction. I strongly suspect there is much more of that, but just getting annoyed that people keep saying there is none.

[AdoraBell]

Growing up in London during 70’s and 80’s I think it less racist, but I think that depends on where. Having lived abroad for nearly twenty years DH was shocked at the racism where we live now, South West. He’d never really noticed his parent’s racism before then.

[ThereWillBeAdequateFood]

Some area of the UK are racist towards whites. If you live in an area where White people are in the minority you see a lot of hostility and some definite no-go areas

I’m white. I’ve been to a lot of places many times where white faces are in the minority. Never been abused, attacked or even had someone look at me in an odd way and I was virtually the only white face there.
These are fairly deprived areas by the way.

I will admit at first it feels unusual being the only white person there but that rapidly passes. Definitely don’t by the “no go areas” thing at all.

[hdh747]

Some area of the UK are racist towards whites. If you live in an area where White people are in the minority you see a lot of hostility and some definite no-go areas.

[Theworldisfullofgs]

[WhenWillItAllEnd]

White people are absolutely discriminated against in the UK, that is exactly what a diversity quota is. You may feel it is justified but it is still discrimination.

The UK along with the rest of the majority white countries, is considerably less racist than the the rest of the world, e.g. Korea and Japan or the monocultures that exist in pretty much every other country.

Only majority white countries are expected to be multi cultural and to be able to assimilate anyone who wants to come here no matter their numbers or culture.

By and large we have done and continue to do a pretty good job an I wish more people were proud of the UK and western Europe instead of beating ourselves up. It's tearing the country apart.

[Magicpaintbrush]

I think it's more prevalent in older generations, much less so with younger generations, and I think (hope) that racist attitudes will die out gradually as a result. I have high hopes that future generations will be very different in their outlook.

[Kolo]

The U.K. is not racist towards whites. There’s so many examples of privilidge that white people have in the U.K. from education, highest qualification, exclusions from school, being offered work, rates of promotion, arrest and sentencing, searches by police, representation in pretty much every aspect of culture and public life.

[TwoRoundabouts]

@VictoriaReal the comments about "London being a different country" are due to the fact that people who aren't white now refuse to bow down to anyone who makes racist comments or manoeuvres. (I grew up with my parents and the oldest of my siblings doing it.) There are some white people especially older ones who expect special privileges just due to the fact they are white. And MN on here who are white can protest about my comment as much as they like but they won't be the ones who experience it.

[Kolo]

Once comment I’ve seen repeated consistently on this thread is “I’m white so I can’t comment”

I’ve said something similar on this thread. I don’t mean by that that I won’t talk about racism, or that white peoples shouldn’t talk about racism. Like a poster above has said, it means that I can’t possibly speak for POC. My white privilege means my opinion isn’t ever going to be as valid as someone who doesn’t have white privilidge and who experiences racism. I’ve never experienced racism against me. It’s like a man trying to correct me about sexism. A man wouldn’t be able to come anywhere near explaining the nuances of sexism as he won’t have experienced it daily, for all of his life, the way that women have. So I’d prefer to listen and learn.

Also, on the question of ‘not being able to ask someone where their family is from’ (paraphrasing), i’d say it’s very rude and racist to go up to strangers to ask that just because they’re a POC. But any of my friends, I generally know where their family are from because we’ve talked about it naturally.

[Afineexample]

Hiddenaspie1973, I will bite and ask for some examples?

[Hiddenaspie1973]

Racist towards whites.

[Afineexample]

The “I’m white so I can’t comment”, to me means- it is hard for me to say how much racism is in the UK. Obviously, we can all point out blatant in your face racism. But so much is hidden and institutional and doesn't affect white people/they don't see it that it's hard for them to speak of the scale of it.

A person who is black will see everyday, low key racism in things that a person who is white would not.

I would never presume to speak on behalf of a POC, a LBQT person, a person with a disability or any other group I don't share lived experiences with. I have no idea what they face daily. I know some of it- the blatant obstacles, not the further back starting point.

[Dervel]

Ok here is something I am genuinely curious about, not trying to deny the existence of racism at all, but questions surrounding ancestry. I used to spend a fair bit of time in the USA and where one’s family is from is a legitimate topic of conversation, people might be like I’m a quarter this or half that etc etc.

Now obviously because I think we’re 87% or so white in the UK there is a natural assumption that unless there is an accent there is less of a reason to dive in, although in my experience people are often keen to talk about any Irish, Scottish or Welsh roots.

However if we’re not supposed to ask people who are BAME, where their family hails from because it’s racist you are also asking white people to discriminate on which conversations to have with this or that race, so you are boxed into racism whatever you do and if the bar for racism really is that low then I’d say any form of multi-culturalism is flat out impossible.

I dated a mixed race girl (I’m white) who is part indian, and she pointed out that she got many dirty looks from non-whites if we so much as held hands together. So what precisely was going on there? Was it racism against me or sexism against her, or both? Although I’d point out any dirty looks we’re timed so as I would be unaware of them. Was that white privilege in action?

Once comment I’ve seen repeated consistently on this thread is “I’m white so I can’t comment” and I get that people are trying to be sensitive, but isn’t that playing straight into segregationists hands? I mean if we’re truly about integration surely we need to weather some uncomfortable moments whatever race we are to get at humany goodness that lies at the core of potentially any person?

This is the thing with identity politics of any stripe it actually seems to cause or at the very least reinforce the very divisions it claims to stand against.

[Afineexample]

VictoriaReal- great post. I know there is racism- and not all the BNP/EDL in your face type. There is much, much more of the "where do you really come from" than there is of the "Go home " variety, and most of the former would deny their racism until the cows come home.

[VictoriaReal]

I don't see why there's any debate. There's clearly racism in the UK. No-one who's non-white thinks there's no racism. It's only some white people who live in small towns who think there's no problem. It is no coincidence that the areas that tipped the Brexit vote above 50% have been identified as the non-university towns in England outside of London. There are too many people in this country who live in small enclaves of 99.9% white people and who never venture into multicultural cities. I see it all the time on MN posts- people afraid to go to London for the day for example. I saw a post on the BBC website about London the other day and the vast majority of the comments underneath were racist written from people who commenting on how "London is another country" and how they never go there etc etc. I work in a university and BAME students complain about 1st year students who've left home for the first time and moved to the city and have never met a POC before and end up saying inappropriate things. (What are their parents thinking never exposing them to the diversity this country has to offer and broadening their experiences? Why would your child never have seen POC before the age of 18??)
This view that London is "becoming" a different country or that immigrants have only started arriving in the last few years is ignorant to the centuries and thousands of years of flux, immigration and conquering this island has lived through. If you don't believe me do your ancestry DNA test. Heads up- there's no such thing as "indigenous" in this country!
The view that there is no racism comes from pure white privilege and ignorance of real experiences. The person who compared this to sexism had it bang on. How many men have you met who claim women "have equality now"? It's because it doesn't affect them, but we women know it affects us throughout our lives and every day in some way.
So just like a man denying sexism exists, no white person should be claiming there is no racism in the UK. You have no grounds, no understanding, no lived experience.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

You see the full monty in west London.

[Afineexample]

I know a muslim woman whose husband would rather she doesn't wear the hijab because of the attitudes of people in the street. (note: he would rather- he doesn't presume to tell her what to wear).
I rarely see women in niqabs- very occasionally in big cities. I think they are vanishingly rare, actually.
And have never seen anybody in a burqa

[tierraJ]

My sister is of mixed race appearance & was racially abused by a man recently.

I know a Polish student nurse whose Polish friends have had their cars damaged & racial abuse written on them also recently.

And a Madeiran Portuguese friend was racially abused in the street by a man.

My cousins Nigerian husband has been called racist names & knocked unconscious following a road rage incident.

Etc etc

I live in the South of England & in my view it's a very racist place.

[KaliforniaDreamz]

I am saying that most white feminists seem to think all muslim women who wear Hijab are forced to.
that is the point i am making.
Of course there are women who are forced to. and i never used the word 'scoff' at those who are. what a cruel thing to insinuate.

[mothertruck3r]

I am referring to the idea that a muslim woman in London is anti feminist by wearing the Hijab. It is simply not so.

How do you know? There are probably hundreds of thousands of women in London who wear the hijab and just because you know one person who hasn't been forced to wear it doesn't mean none of them have. I have read quite a few accounts of women in the UK who have been pressured to wear it just to balance things out.

[outpinked]

I teach in an extremely multicultural city and don’t witness any racism. The college has a zero tolerance policy but honestly, I’ve never known a student complain about racism.

I am white so don’t feel qualified to comment on racism in the UK as a whole but I would definitely say it has hugely improved over the past decade. Brexit does seem to have pushed us back a little though...

[Bunnyfuller]

Pretty racist. Particularly when people say things like ‘white people arent discriminated against in the UK’.

White Eastern Europeans are VERY much discriminated against, and it seems to be more acceptable because they’re white!

[KaliforniaDreamz]

Yes i knew i would get those coments but i am talking about my friends here in London.
I am referring to the idea that a muslim woman in London is anti feminist by wearing the Hijab. It is simply not so.
I am not trivialising the experiences of some women in extreme circumstances. Rather that is the way white people seem to view ALL MUSLIM WOMEN.