Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

Just because you match wouldn’t mean your organs would go to your child in that situation. They would go to the first best match on the list. You can’t once dead only donate to certain people.

Well, under the much-repeated "you'll be dead and won't know about it" argument, you'll be dead and won't know about it Feb. So it won't be a problem that no one's paying for or putting flowers on your grave.

Although it's pretty selfish to want a grave really. Or to have children. Or for your children to survive when others need organs. Or for humanity to survive when it's doing so much damage to the environment and each other.

And we're not allowing selfishness or emotional or illogical reasoning anymore, so we're done with all that anyway. So there you go, kill everyone and we'll all finally be morally pure, I guess.

*For those having a wobbly about their body 'belonging to the state' after they die:

It's a dead body. Not a live human being.*

I hate this attitude. A dead body is not junk. There logic of which concludes you'd be as happy to be upcycled into a trendy lamp stand.

Organ donation is a gift. I'm happy to donate. I'd have to hold myself together if my child died though and I think I could give the nod but holy fuck, it wouldn't be because my little one was spare fucking parts.

As medical procedures improve I presume more body part will be able to be transplanted. Will those who are opted in be contacted so they can choose whether they want to donate a limb, uterus or whatever or will they be expected to check regularly and update the system? Just because someone is happy to donate a heart or kidney they may not be happy to donate a hand for example.

I find it worrying that it takes 10 weeks to confirm you have opted out. This could mean that someone who is against donation, for religious reasons for example, could end up donating against their wishes. This is why it's important that NOK can still override the register.

It's been talked about for years! It has in no way come from no where suddenly.

I fully support it as law. Nobody is loosing any rights to decide what happens to their body. Just like before you should make your thoughts known before you die the only difference is you need to say if you don't want rather than of you do.

Research has found that people who don't want to donate are much more likely to register their objections than people who do want to donate or are not bothered but don't want to think about it will be to log their consent (despite it being incredibly easy to do).

It has been talked about for decades as an idea. I had no idea it was going to be a law,
Legalisation of cannabis has also been talked about for decades. An idea being talked about simply means there is a campaign/pressure group behind it. It does not mean it will become law.

NRTFT but what about human rights? Oh, forgot they don’t really exist in this country anymore! We’re just puppets to do as the mighty government and majesty herself requires. No chance in hell anyone is harvesting my organs, I would like to be buried whole thank you! It makes me sick. Nothing is truly ours, not even our own bodies!

Another logical thought; if our bodies are all just spare parts when we die, why hasn't it already been the norm that parts are just taken? Presumably it's because of consent, and in no other circumstance would "presumed opt in consent" count these days.

And it can't be different just because we're taking about dead bodies, since otherwise things like necrophilia should be fine too (why not assume people are fine with this unless they've logged an objection? They're dead after all.)

Wasn’t there a whole thing about organs being stolen/taken anyway before burial and families didn’t find out for a while. Not sure if it’s this country but definitely happened somewhere! What’s to say they don’t already take all organs anyway and lie? Who knows what they do once we’re in that morgue. What do they do with our blood from blood tests etc? I doubt that they destroy them. I very much believe our blood is sold or given away, especially when it is a rare type.

berrybubbles

One of those would be alder hey

I think if family can still override, opt-out is likely to result in less donations rather than more.

If someone has opted in to be a donor the family can take this into account in making their decision. If they have not actively made the choice or their wishes clear I suspect many people will make the decision not to proceed.

It is all very well saying that the potential donor is dead anyway, but their family is not, and are unlikely to view their loved one as "spare parts".

I am happy to donate, I have had the conversation with my family. But I have also told them that they are my first thought and that they should do what they feel they need to in that situation.

The only way this will increase actual numbers is to remove the family discretion. Is that really what people want? Bodies taken from grieiving family regardless of their feelings without even the justification that it was what the donor wanted? I think that crosses a line but is the only way I can see opt-out resulting in more organ availability.

I think family will visit a empty coffin with gravestone of a woman who saved 20 lives by donating with a lot more respect than a gravestone with the whole body of a woman who refused. I was posing a hypothetical to try and show people the importance of donating over the need for an intact dead corpse in the ground! I wasn't stating a blooming fact! Can't check this thread again as its stressing me out, all you women saying you want to be buried whole, I just hope you understand that your selfishness and the selfishness of people like you, means people like the woman on here whose daughter needs a kidney have more time waiting for a donor.

I think family will visit a empty coffin with gravestone of a woman who saved 20 lives by donating with a lot more respect than a gravestone with the whole body of a woman who refused.

I donated my son's organs, I couldn't donate my daughter's. I visit them and feel the same respect, sadness and pride for being part of their short lives.

Once again, I will repeat, not donating organs isn't selfish. Organ donation is a GIFT and not a right and it should always be seen as such.

If it had been seen as a given I would have felt very differently about donating my son's organs.

Nobody has yet answered my question as to whether the parents upset at their children’s organs being retained by alder hey were unreasonable to be upset given they were just dead bodies.

Also, to the people stating that the people who wouldn’t give are not good people compared to those who would, you’re assuming that needing an organ also makes you a good person then? The bad do get sick as well you know? The wife beaters, the criminals, the pedophiles,some of them will need organ transplants in their time, but let’s assume that needing an organ makes you a good person whereas not being willing to donate one automatically makes you a bad one.

There are mn’ers who have donated loved ones’ organs and having been through the process once swear they would never do so again. Iirc there is a mn’er whose fostered or adopted ds consented to a parent’s organs being donated and was so traumatised by it he’s had to have therapy and would never donate again.

As for not wishing to mention the side effects of the drugs etc, why not? Do bear in mind that if you donate your organs you are only giving the chance of life, not the guarantee of it. That person could die on the table receiving those organs which people believe should be snatched according to the government law and potentially without the consent of anyone concerned.

Why is it about relatives visiting a grave for you though?

And to the mn’ers over-emoting about “let’s hope you don’t have to listen to your child screaming needing an organ” let’s look at this another way shall we? Let’s hope you don’t ever have to sit with a loved one and are then denied the chance to be with them as their heart stops beating. Because although to all intents and purposes they are brain dead, that’s not how it looks to the individual sitting with them is it? So let’s not throw around all that “they’re just a dead body” crap shall we?

That kind of talk shows that those who believe people should die based on their hypothetical and unlikely possibility of donating organs are far more lacking in compassion than those who will need to witness the death of a loved one at some point. Because let’s face it, you are highly, highly unlikely to ever be in a position to donate your organs, whereas you are almost guaranteed to have to witness a death at some point in your life.

While most people I’m sure would want to help save a life, I do think there’s something quite disturbing about your organs effectively defaulting to property of state upon your demise.

I used to believe very strongly in presumed consent and actually ten years ago I would probably have happily signed a petition asking the government to introduce it. I remember writing ethics essays about it at university twenty five years ago when it was very much a hypothetical discussion.

But having read a lot more about it over the years I am now against the idea. Mainly on the grounds that it's not effective. It doesn't appear to result in huge numbers of organs being available. And the discussion on this thread just makes me even more convinced that once we see organ donation as an obligation instead of a gift we are on a very slippery slope indeed. And I've been a registered organ donor since I was old enough to sign the form, have two relatives who benefited from transplants and my closest friend made a living donation, do I am not in any way opposed to organ donation.

I'm curious about something

the posters who feel strongly that people "should" donate organs...

If someone had a "religious" reason for not wanting to donate organs, would you find that acceptable?

I think family will visit a empty coffin with gravestone of a woman who saved 20 lives by donating with a lot more respect than a gravestone with the whole body of a woman who refused.

What a shitty, low-life, crap, awful thing to write! Seriously! 'Oh, death is so much better because the person donated their organs' is what you're saying. How clueless and fucked up that is. It hurts when your child dies and nothing in the entire world makes it worthy of 'respect' at all.

This thread reinforces how far down the road we're gone to seeing people as parts.

If someone had a "religious" reason for not wanting to donate organs, would you find that acceptable?

From the responses on here, no.

@Xenia great so your passing on the burden to your kids? They'll be grieving and now have to make the decision as to wether to help someone but cut up their dead mum or not? They'll obviously choose not because by opting out that seems to be your wish.

What a horrible gift to your kids

Unfortunately there is no one to pay for or visit your grave becuase you effectively killed your only family

W.T.A.FUCK?! I don't know what's worse, that you actually spent time conceiving of this bullshit hypothetical situation that has probably never occurred or that you just equated a person who doesn't donate organs as a murderer. Jesus fucking wept!

AFAIK, the definition of ‘dead’ will still be same, so it’s not as if the doctors are eyeing you up for spare parts if you end up in hospital- they’ll still be doing all they can to save your life first. Only when that is exhausted, and your body is incapable of functioning, do you die.
I put myself on the organ donation list as soon as I was able to - it’s an amazing legacy to potentially help improve the quality of lives of several people rather than just rejoin the carbon cycle.

The singing of life at all costs life at all costs continues.

A tiny percentage of people actually die in a way that means they can donate.

On the whole consent opt out... does that mean sex could end up opt out consent too? I mean it’s just a body at the end of the day.