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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Donor consent law is being changed...

895 replies

flirtygirl · 16/03/2019 10:39

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

OP posts:
anniehm · 16/03/2019 19:35

This has been 5 years at least in the making, it's been very well publicised through media outlets and there's been flyers in our gp's since at least December from our ccg. It's an excellent move and (hopefully) will save many lives

Cheby · 16/03/2019 19:37

Those who are pro organ donation, but will opt out because they disagree with this system...I just can’t fathom the logic here. If you said ‘I’m going to opt out for as long as it takes to get the system changed back’ and then campaigned and worked hard to effect it, I could sort of get it. I wouldn’t agree, but I could sort of get it. But people who are opting out without then doing anything about it? What are you trying/hoping to achieve? All I can see is that you reduce people’s chances of getting an organ when they need one. It just seems spiteful.

Gronky · 16/03/2019 19:38

My concern is that a person can still feel pain.

Have you ever knocked yourself out and had no concept of time passing, let alone perceiving the pain of the cause of unconsciousness? In brain death, the structures necessary to process pain are completely non functional and they will never function again.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/03/2019 19:39

Just a thought but would those that are happy with this, be happy for their cadavers to be given to car safety test and research centers?

JoyceDivision · 16/03/2019 19:40

Total aside, but did anyone see the reporting of a fire fighter in America who was going to die, his organsxwere going to be donated and he was moved to the operating theatre by firemen in uniform and staff lined the corridors to salute him as he passed Sad

ketchupormayo · 16/03/2019 19:40

Don't know why anyone would opt out tbh. Utterly selfish. Don't need your organs when you're dead and they could save so many people

Shortandsweet96 · 16/03/2019 19:42

As someone who feels very strongly about consent due to having been raped, I feel similarly. I doubt I will follow through to the point of opting out but the idea of having things done to my body without my knowledge/explicit consent is still massively triggering to me and the knowledge that I'd be dead doesn't change that. So I don't think it's as black and white as you are trying to make it.

I'm sorry to hear that you went through that. But you cant liken organ donation to being raped.

It is in no way without your knowledge or consent. You know the law is changing and that you will have to opt out. Opting out is the consent, or lack of if you decide to do so.

You are automatically an organ donor. Want to be? Great do nothing, save a life.
Dont want to be? Ok, just opt out. You're no longer an organ donor.

It really is that black and white.

Romanov · 16/03/2019 19:42

@Skypatrol

Fucking hell, I can't believe people are saying those who opt out shouldn't be allowed to receive an organ, have people actually thought that through?
Yes I have, thanks for asking. If you cannot give away some tissue, and stuff you are not using and never will need, then you are the epitome of selfish. You would rather your corpse rots in a grave or burns to ash than let someone have a chance at a decent life?

SilverySurfer · 16/03/2019 19:43

Cheby As I explained in my first post, opting out doesn't necessarily mean that I wouldn't donate but rather that it's my body so my choice. I will be the one to decide if I donate or not and my NOK will be informed.

Romanov · 16/03/2019 19:43

Total, I can't use it but you can't have it

Seniorcitizen1 · 16/03/2019 19:43

NopeNi I don’t follow you - my son is a registered donor and any children he has I am assuming they too will be as they will he brought up as compassionate people and will see the merits of donation. I can not see any reason not to donate something you have no further use for and which, if all healthy, could save upto 5 lives, and if corneas used improve the quality of life for teo others. No brainer for me

BreakYourselfAgainstMyStones · 16/03/2019 19:43

It isn't selfish.

It is, and always should be, considered a gift if organs are donated. It shouldn't be a right at all.

Seniorcitizen1 · 16/03/2019 19:44

coffee so am I - sorry for your loss

ketchupormayo · 16/03/2019 19:44

It is massively selfish. You don't need your organs when you're dead

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 16/03/2019 19:46

The posters saying that anyone opting out shouldn't be able to receive an organ - do you donate blood?

If you don't have a valid medical reason not to its a bit rich to be judging the opt out crowd? Because by the time you're in the unfortunate position to need a blood donation you're not allowed to donate after.

BreakYourselfAgainstMyStones · 16/03/2019 19:48

It's not selfish to think of your own family, their pain, what they would want and be able to cope with.

Organ donation is, and always should be, a GIFT.

Seniorcitizen1 · 16/03/2019 19:48

Boney not quite the same thing as they have developed computers and dummies that simulate what would happen to a body in a car crash. But once I am dead my body is no use to me so I would he ok with this.

coffeeismyspinach · 16/03/2019 19:57

coffeeismyspinach I am truly sorry for your loss. It is a really emotive subject and I struggle to put my own emotions to one side.

What I really really can’t understand is the people who are opting out to stop the ‘state’ getting their organs. It is dying people who won’t get the organs, not the government.

I do not understand it myself, TiredSloth, I am regular blood donor, on the organ donor registry and they can take anything (skin, long bone, tendons, my eyes) but I feel that I have to respect it because I believe that the way to go is different, IYKWIM (probably not because I'm very poor at explaining myself because again, it is an emotive subject) and not presumed consent because presumed consent IMO is for people who are not compos mentis (and even then, I believe in advanced directives such as living wills being recognised and encoded in law) and that bodily autonomy is paramount.

Again, I save my ire for the lack of research into the diseases that often put people in such conditions, particularly children, as paediatric disease is pretty much the bottom of the barrel when it comes to research funding.

But also, even, on perhaps examining and revising and allowing discretion and leeway into the actual process of harvesting donated organs. For example, allowing a loved one into theatre to hold the hand of their relative. From my experience in hospital and medical settings, it is a grave source of emotion and despair, yes, despair, that this is not so in some cases. Again, an example, my daughter had to undergo a great many GAs during her illness. A parent was allowed to be there as they went under. When she went under vent for the last time, there are truly no words or qualification of thanks I can ever give to the consultant who allowed me to stay with her, when they were hustling me out, as she was put under because it was the last time I saw her 'alive', IYKWIM, and I know that last time she did so, she was very scared, was with me holding her hand, telling her it was alright (even though I knew it wasn't). His decision meant the world, to both of us. IME, most people in such settings are capable of reigning in their emotions, being the bigger person, IYKWIM, and it means so very much to them, but policy . . . I get why it's there, though.

But I feel there does need to be re-evaluation of it all, IYKWIM.

I also feel it is unfair to label non-donors in any way because to me this can easily be extended. I feel very sad that we were not able to donate anything of my child. But it in no way means she does not 'live on' and it is at times quite painful to see such language surrounding death, tbh.

I'm very sorry for your son's condition and I hope he gets his transplant and I apologise in advance if I have in any way upset you, it was never my intention.

coffeeismyspinach · 16/03/2019 19:57

X-posted with Break who put it so much better and more succinctly.

MummaMooMoo · 16/03/2019 20:05

Initially I laughed at this. OPs seemingly frantic desperation to cling on to organs they will once have used, to be absolutely sure that they will rot or burn.

Others have made interesting cases for the issues with opt-in, which will prompt me to read a little. However, I don't see how opting out of donating is any way to protest or change the system? It just seems extremely short-sighted and ineffectual in that regard.

chillpizza · 16/03/2019 20:11

I’ll opt out. I want to donate my body to a cadaver farm. I also wouldn’t be able to donate a loved one, I couldn’t let them be taken away to die surrounded by doctors rather than loved ones if it came down to choice. I’d also rather fly to a place to die than live with dementia etc I don’t believe in life at all costs.

Thelineisadottoyou · 16/03/2019 20:11

I agree with this totally. I am happy to give anything that can help save the life of another when I die. I am however concerned like previous posters about donation of ovaries/ uterus and if this would be included? These would be the only things I would opt out of and would hope it possible to have this option.

coffeeismyspinach · 16/03/2019 20:24

I want to donate my body to a cadaver farm.

If this is truly what you want, then please, please follow the links to the HTA provided because you need to arrange this before your death or events which may result in brain death. It is a valid choice but it needs prior arrangement and consent whilst you are of sound mind.

NorthernLurker · 16/03/2019 20:26

I would like to opt out then be able to opt back in as a gift not an obligation.

Reluctance to donate is not selfishness. Selfishness revolves around keeping more than you need. Your organs, the integrity of your body, you last moments as an organism on earth are not more than you need. That's all that you need.if you choose to give that away then that's great but it's not an obligation and you're not selfish if you won't.

I work with patients who need a transplant. It really is not as simple as it seems and I would not be a live donor except for my kids.

I think we will find some long term ill effects for recipients mental health too. Knowing you have a part of somebody else inside you, knowing their death equals your life is a tremendous burden. Many recipients struggle with it. Knowing that person or their family made a free gift to you can help get people through. Knowing that organs were harvested under an opt out is going to mAke a big difference.

NorthernLurker · 16/03/2019 20:27

Oh and there is no way I'd risk my uterus being appropriated for use by a man.

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