Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that things were different before 2007?

749 replies

Haarrieett · 15/03/2019 19:03

Just happened to see that the new Madeleine McCann documentary is trending on twitter - I clicked on it and saw that hundreds of people were saying things along the lines of "Who would leave their children alone in a foreign country?"

I was slightly Blush at this because dh and I honestly used to do this all the time. My dc are a few years older than Madeleine - when we went on holiday to resorts in places like Greece and Spain, we would often leave them alone in a hotel room (often with a window/patio door open for fresh air) while we went out for dinner.

Obviously, after Madeleine went missing we never did it again, but I do recall it being pretty common behaviour at least among our friends.

Did anyone else used to do this in the pre-MM era?

OP posts:
GunpowderGelatine · 17/03/2019 12:43

Sorry but I'm Shock at someone leaving their child on a boat how on earth could you think this was ever ok?! You're exceptionally lucky nothing happened

WeaselsRising · 17/03/2019 12:45

I'm mid 50s and my DPs used to leave us "in the care of" our NDN. She would be in her house (with her grandson) and us in ours, and she would listen through the wall.

I also remember being left outside pubs with a packet of crisps. DPs weren't drinkers so I don't suppose it happened very often; probably on holiday. We were also left to the listening service at Butlins. I remember running to the toilet block and trying to dodge the "nanny"!

I also have an odd memory of waking up in the back of a van and looking out of the window to see DM and DF dancing at a party. I asked DM about this recently and apparently they had ballroom dancing lessons. Because they didn't have a babysitter they would get us ready for bed and snuggle us down in the back of their (Escort-sized) van which would be parked outside the venue.

My own DC were born mid-late 80s. We didn't ever go abroad, but we left them to the Butlins service. They discontinued it by the time we had our youngest and he would get really miserable taken out in a pushchair and refuse to sleep. DH had to take him back to the chalet and stay with him while I was out with the other DC.

Amongst my mum-friends at the time we all used to leave our pre schoolers in the car outside Tescos after playgroup. Never for a full shop, and we parked in front of the big glass windows all in a line, but I wouldn't do that now. When you all do something it makes it more "normal".

GreenOliveOrBlackOlive · 17/03/2019 12:50

The thing thing that always stood out to me regarding the McCanns leaving the children was the swimming pool.

That distance and having to come past pool if the children had come looking for their parents would have been the crux of it in my mind. I always had a big worry about pools and ponds etc when my dc were small.

Checking them every 15/20 minutes as they were doing isn’t sufficient when a child could drown in 2 minutes. So in that respect alone I think their judgement was off.

But yes outlooks change. My own parents lost me on the beach when I was three because they both fell asleep. However there were other incidents too and even taking into account I grew up in the 70s (when parents were more often unconcerned than nowadays), I would never follow their approach as they really could and should have been more bothered on many occasions.

NewAccount270219 · 17/03/2019 12:55

If the McCanns had been underclass supermarket-worker tatooed Geordies in Benidorm drinking lager and eating all day breakfasts rather than doctors having wine and tapas, would people be as understanding?

I remember people saying this at the time - while the McCanns were being attacked and vilified, Kate was described as 'cold' constantly, etc. I'm not saying that class plays no role in public perceptions of cases such as this, but to say that the McCanns weren't slated because they're middle class is bizarre when they were enormously attacked.

GunpowderGelatine · 17/03/2019 12:57

@NewAccount270219 they weren't slated because they were MC, they were slated because they didn't meet people's perception of how parents in turmoil should act. This is nothing to do with class - although as a society we need to stop thinking victims/loved ones/those mourning MUST behave a certain way

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 17/03/2019 13:01

oliver

Ds2 was with dh at the beach when he was anout 3 la few of the women were sat on the hill and dh probably had 6/7 children with him.

Ds2 was behind him and dh didn't notice when he went under the waves twice...by the time it was the third time we ere screaming at him and two of us were running as fast as we could

It happened so fast!!

KimchiLaLa · 17/03/2019 13:05

My parents never left me alone abroad and I remember one night they did for a work dinner, but with a hotel babysitter.

I did hear someone say in the doc that it was a very done thing and in that way I think times have changed. Now that I have a young DD I would never leave her in a hotel
room on her own. Partly because of the horror of the McCanns.

NewAccount270219 · 17/03/2019 13:36

I never said they were slated because they were middle class - I said they were slated and they're middle class, which makes it a bit weird to claim that being middle class protected them/that a working class family would have been criticised and they weren't. And you can't now say it was nothing to do with class when you're the one who brought class up and compared them to a (fictional) working class couple!

Ginger1982 · 17/03/2019 13:38

D'ya know, Lying, I'm afraid I do judge in that circumstance, but thanks for hoping that I get the 'fear' 🙄

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/03/2019 13:44

I don't 'hope' that anybody feels that sense of dread, Ginger but your lack of understanding that parents make bad judgement calls sometimes and do experience this horrible thing - even without awful consequences - makes me wonder why you'd post as you have.

Your judgement achieves nothing useful. It might make you feel good but it's sad that you (and others) have to put posters down to achieve that.

Jenasaurus · 17/03/2019 13:54

My parents would leave me and my sister with a baby listening device when we stayed at a holiday camp (pontins) a voice would go over the tannoy "mrs… your baby is crying in chalet number 17" and they would go and check, I was born in 1965 and this was typical then but I have 3 children of my own (all grown up) and never left them.

DannyDyersPants · 17/03/2019 13:56

I'm in my late thirties and I remember my parents leaving me and my sister at night on holiday in our room. She also used to leave us at night when we were in bed and my dad was on nights to walk the dog or pop across the road to her friends.

We went on holiday in the September the same year that MM went missing. We ate in the restaurant every night with our dc's who where 3&2 and the amount of couples sat with a baby monitor on there table obviously eating while the kids were in the room was unreal! I couldn't get my head round it especially so soon after what had happened! And the fact the rooms were so far away and not even visible from the restaurant and it was clear half the monitors weren't working anyway!

SecretWitch · 17/03/2019 14:44

It would never occur to me to leave my children unattended ( and an occasional “listener” is unattended) while I popped out for dinner. My children are too precious to be left to chance.

Valanice1989 · 17/03/2019 15:01

MM taught me that the extremely unlikely can actually happen and in strange places there will be info you won’t be aware of. That expensive complex wasn’t the secure parent friendly place it was sold to be.

I've heard a few comments along these lines over the years ("the complex was marketed as family-friendly!") and I genuinely don't understand what they mean. In what way was the complex missold to the McCanns? How on Earth could the management have prevented what happened?

The McCanns left their children in an unlocked apartment. Should the management have monitored every single person who entered and exited the complex? Should they have realised that a couple were leaving their children in an unlocked apartment and built a force field around it? Does anyone honestly think that fires don't happen in "secure" places, or that paedophiles will look at an apartment complex and think, "Oh, I'm not abducting a child from THERE, it's too family-friendly!"

contrary13 · 17/03/2019 15:28

In 1986, when I was 10, we went on a family holiday to Morocco. Every single day, I used to escape from the hotel and take myself up off the main street and into the bazaar area whilst my parents were in the bar. I suspect they presumed that I was in our cramped family room (I slept on a pull out bed at the foot of theirs), until one of them was sent to check on me, hours later - every day, mind - only to find me missing. By the end of the first week, the hotel had security men posted on the doors into the hotel foyer, which I had to cross in order to escape. I befriended them, and they used to send me darting off up the main street to fetch them sweetmeats, etc.

In hindsight... my parents were bloody lucky nothing nasty happened to me. The shopkeepers I met were bemused and tolerant of this caucasian girl who used to sit and watch them haggle, and actually, because of the freedom I found for myself? It was the best family holiday I ever went on with my parents. I do understand, in hindsight/as a parent myself, how bloody lucky I was, though. Especially as where we were, isn't that far from where only 20 odd years later Madeline was taken/snatched from.

My daughter is a few years older than Madeline and yes; we holidayed abroad when she was a toddler. Not once did I leave her by herself so that I could have time to myself. Partly because we'd all been made aware of the dangers, anyway, but mostly because I remembered how fortunate I'd been as a child not to have anything nasty happen to me during that holiday (previous family holidays, I had at least one older brother trailing round after me). Do I condone what the McCanns did? No. But I cannot and will not condemn them, either. They have to live every single day with the consequences of the choice they made. Their twins' entire lives will have been affected by the consequences of their parents choices - and will continue to be so, because although the press have backed off now? When they're adults, they'll be back in full force. And, of course, Madeline... whatever happened to her, is as a result of her parents middle class way of thinking - and I completely "get" that line of thought, because I know my parents were the same. I'm around the same age as Gerry and Kate are - and when we were growing up? It was safe/normal for parents on holiday to head for the bar, or a restaurant whilst their children - of whatever age - slept. Now? It's not.

I've watched the entire series and, actually, it's very balanced - and the conclusion it seems to have drawn is that they aren't/weren't to blame for whatever happened to Madeline. However, they have to live with her not being in their midst every single day... and that is their life sentence.

TheLastKingdom5 · 17/03/2019 15:37

No, things were not different in 2007. I grew up in the 90s and no way would my parents have left me alone in a hotel room, at home, anywhere, until I was around 13-14.

BertrandRussell · 17/03/2019 15:47

“The McCanns left their children in an unlocked apartment”

Well, if we’re assessing genuine risk, an unlocked apartment is much safer than a locked one.

nokidshere · 17/03/2019 15:49

No, things were not different in 2007. I grew up in the 90s and no way would my parents have left me alone in a hotel room, at home, anywhere, until I was around 13-14.

That was you. Not everyone did what you did. There have been many posts saying that they were left or that they left their children. What's not to understand? Just because you weren't left does not mean that others weren't. Lots of parents did the same as the McCanns, they were just lucky that nothing happened to them.

Head. Brick Wall. Confused

Valanice1989 · 17/03/2019 15:51

However, they have to live with her not being in their midst every single day... and that is their life sentence.

Madeleine wasn't really in her parents' midst before she disappeared, though. They left her and the twins at the Kids Club all day and alone in the apartment all evening. They did this every day. If they choose to see so little of their children while on holiday, how much do you think they saw of them back in the UK when they had work to do? They probably haven't spent much less time with her than they would have if she'd never disappeared. It's an uncomfortable thing to acknowledge, but it's true.

nokidshere · 17/03/2019 15:54

Madeleine wasn't really in her parents' midst before she disappeared, though. They left her and the twins at the Kids Club all day and alone in the apartment all evening. They did this every day. If they choose to see so little of their children while on holiday, how much do you think they saw of them back in the UK when they had work to do? They probably haven't spent much less time with her than they would have if she'd never disappeared. It's an uncomfortable thing to acknowledge, but it's true

I'm truly speechless at this post Shock

Valanice1989 · 17/03/2019 15:54

Well, if we’re assessing genuine risk, an unlocked apartment is much safer than a locked one.

Why? There was a busy road and a pool nearby. If there was a fire, the kids were toast, regardless of whether or not the door was locked - the parents would never have made it back in time to rescue them before they died of smoke inhalation. On balance, if wine and tapas were that important to them, it was probably safer on balance just to lock the door.

Valanice1989 · 17/03/2019 16:01

Why are you speechless, nokidshere? The parents were effectively living as though they were a childless couple.

FuckertyBoo · 17/03/2019 16:03

nokidshere, it really isn’t a case of “head brick wall”. Some people did this prior to 2007 and some people did after and still do it. I’ve listed examples of people I know who do it now or in the past couple of years.

But it isn’t the norm now and it wasn’t the norm in my family or friends before 2007 either.

People saying on here that they were left is no more conclusive when the question is was it widely accepted as the norm.

FuckertyBoo · 17/03/2019 16:04

No more conclusive than people saying they were not*

ColeHawlins · 17/03/2019 16:05

Well, if we’re assessing genuine risk, an unlocked apartment is much safer than a locked one.

How have you arrived at that conclusion @BertrandRussell ?