To ask, if you believe in a 'God'/Higher Being, how do you rationalise the death of an innocent child? **Contains graphic content - Thread titled edited by MNHQ**

[DM1209]

Good morning MN. I have been raised within a faith, Sikhism, and for the most part it brings me comfort and inner peace. My faith believes in equality for all mankind, standing up for those that cannot stand up for themselves and in doing good for the world which is why, in our places of worship we offer free hot meals all day to ANYONE that walks through our doors, regardless of their faith, gender, or colour.

Over time though I am finding myself asking 'that' question. If there is a higher power, why does 'it' not stop some senseless acts of evil from happening? I know it's not as clear cut as that and I know life is about balance, you have good and bad. But how do you rationalise this in your head if you follow a faith? And if you don't follow a faith, is it easier to understand the cruelty of mankind?

I know acts and deeds committed are the result of a person and their actions, they are responsible, I get that too....but why? Where is the intervention? Where is that 'angel' or that divine power that steps in?

I've just read about a 22 month old little girl who in her short life was neglected and abused and as a result of which, she died, no was murdered with a massive overdose of codeine.

She was also found with multiple head fractures, rib fractures, broken bones and a split liver. These injuries were consistent with those of a car crash victim. This little baby lay suffering and dying in her bed, over the course of about 4 days, while her 'mother' and her boyfriend played games and spent time on Facebook. I cannot imagine her pain and distress, the confusion in her mind and the acceptance that this was her life. Why? How is this ok if you are 'God'?

When her mother finally called for help, she was already dead and rigor mortis had set in which takes several hours. She was just left. No love, no warmth and no comfort. Then people say 'she's in a better place now.' No she isn't, she's dead and has only know suffering while alive.

Why? Just, why?

I'm not expecting answers as just, I simply cannot understand. Call it a crisis of sorts I suppose.

I also believe that we have the choice to keep coming back from "home" because we want to learn more, and have to experience unpleasant things in order for us to reach a higher place. I think we will all have experienced sufferings in previous lives., but they're all forgotten when we're reborn.

I'd just like to add, this is what I think personally, I'd never preach and expect others to always agree with me.

Foodylicious Wed 13-Mar-19 10:25:01
Please ask MN to edit your title to add upsetting content warning

Maybe the internet isnt the place for you tbh

I think karma is nothing more than people trying to make sense of the universes patterns, as far as im aware there is no empirical proof of karma so im happy to throw it into the same 'stupid shit' box as all other religions or spiritualities boak

Innocents like children are not denied heaven

Depends on your flavour of religion

I am struggling with this at the moment.
I suffered endlessly as a child and my life continues to be difficult and painful no matter how many positive things I try to do.

I was once told by a psychic that I deserved to be sexual abused as a child because, I was a bad person in a previous life. I feel stuff like that is dangerous.

I was once told by a psychic

Psychics do not exist, there are plenty of charlatans who like to make people believe they are psychic so as they can manipulate people so feel free to discount the opinion of any piece of shit that told you that

There is good & there is bad..
.. humans are flawed ..

Some very, very profound and well articulated points of view, thank you. Today has just been one of those days and I believe in questioning life, ethics, religion and humanity. My faith is based on being taught and teaching, we never have all of the answers and we are not meant to. I do believe that to struggle is human and suffering goes hand in hand in that. I also believe the day I stop feeling the pain of an innocent life lost, or anger that it happened, I have lost my humanity.

We find comfort in different things and sometimes we need to look beyond our comfort zones and ask, 'Why?' 'What if? Otherwise we become blind followers and I never want to be that. I question and I seek answers.
That's what today has been about for me. I am very, very blessed, this I know and I will never take that for granted and will always treat others with empathy, equality and kindness, my children are taught the same thing.

I don't believe in God, despite being brought up Anglican.

I think that some people do good things and some people do bad things.

Your childhood, the way you were raised and your brain wiring all contribute to your behaviour and the things you choose to do.

It is my belief that God (in any religion) is there only as a source of comfort in life, so to try to attach meaning and reasoning to 'His' actions is impossible and unhelpful.

I think it is better to live your life the best way you can, and as hard as it may be, just accept that sometimes some people do bad things.

Not a popular view I know.

If people believe in God, they believe the person is now in a better place - with no more pain or suffering.

If they are not religious, they can still find comfort that any pain or suffering has ceased.

When someone dies, it's the people that are still alive who hurt. That is hard to put into mere words. It is never going to feel "just" or "fair". The people who are still alive have had their happiness diminished forever. The only way to get by is to focus on other people's happiness. That poor baby is free from her short, brutish life. I cannot wish her back into misery simply to ease my own distress at reading about it. I can hope that karma will eventually catch up to the people who directly or indirectly caused her pain. x

I agree with @SweatyUnderboob. I believe we choose our situations to a certain extent before we’re born but still have free choice while we’re here.

I don't think there's any great mystery.
We are just biological beings with consciousness and ego who think we are special.
All living things, animal or plant can thrive or suffer so why should we be different?
Just because we feel deep emotion about loss doesn't mean there must be a mystical 'reason'

I agree with Bray

I don't believe in god or any higher powers. Behaviour is influenced by nature and nurture. Life can be shit. There's no greater meaning

I am a long way from being a theologist (raised a mixture of Catholic and Protestant, many years an atheist), but it has always made sense to me.

Using hard logic, what exactly is the point on living on earth before heaven if it were all sunshine and roses and everyone being lovely to one another? I mean, why not skip straight to heaven if that were the case?

If you're going to be judged on the quality of your soul, it needs a test - how you endure suffering, how you ameliorate the suffering of others, how you choose to turn the other cheek, or protect the weak etc.

If life was just lovely and empty of suffering and empty of sin, then how is it even different from heaven?

Karma is great. It means that I can go up to a complete stranger in the street and punch them in the face, safe in the knowledge that they had it coming!

And, if someone has ever done something bad to you, and you've said "karma will get them", then think about the bad thing you did to someone else. You must have done something, or else the bad thing wouldn't have happened to you.

People always think karma is going to start with the person who has harmed them. They never consider that maybe they got harmed because karma was getting them.

The whole ‘free will’ thing is such an enormous fucking cop-out for a so-called God and the biggest flashing beacon that a so-called God does not exist. We imperfect humans will intervene if we witness someone trying to hurt someone else, we try to cure diseases, we help each other out, so why wouldn’t a God be moved to intervene when humans are suffering and atrocities are being perpetrated on humans?

We don’t stand by and say “Ah well, that mugger robbing the old lady, it’s just someone exercising their free will, whatcha gonna do? That dictator torturing prisoners and starving his people and burning people in gas ovens? Just free will innit mate?”

Even something as simple as stopping our children hitting each other, we step in, we prevent the assault with a deadly Tonka truck. We try and do something about it, so why doesn’t this God do something to prevent his children from being hurt by his other children?

My belief is we do not have an interventional God. All life, human, animal, has an expiry date, our bodies will age and cease to work. Sometimes, our bodies will become faulty, at any age, sometimes it can be fixed, sometimes it can't.

Accidents happen, and evil actions take place.

I don't believe God will intervene on earth. This is our life to function as we choose in the physical form we have, in the society previous generations have helped shape.

I hope that makes sense.

I don't believe god exists and bad things happen to people of all ages. I think it's pointless expecting there to be some omnipotent character who sits on high who will stop every dreadful thing happening to any one of the billions of living creatures on the planet. If you do believe one exists I think you're ultimately going to be very disappointed at his/her/its lack of success/effort.

Ah Divine Non-interventionalism and Fatalism but hey, it’ll all make sense when we get to Heaven? God’s like the deific equivalent of Switzerland?

So, just another cop-out then.

Sorry, JoyceDivision no, you’re not selling a loving, benevolent God any better than the priests and nuns did when I was growing up.

It makes perfect sense JoyceDivision

I don't believe in god; if there is a god it would not be worthy of worship.

Everyone who asks this sort of question is assuming that our life on earth is the main event. I think one argument is that our life on earth is a tiny moment/fraction of what our life afterwards is and that any suffering here will be put in to context in the life after.

As a parent we sometimes make our children suffer in the short term because we know it is in their long-term interests. We just need to look at the threads about forcing toddlers to take their antibiotics or to have painful hospital tests, to know that a good parent would usually insist on these things despite the child crying being upset

God therefore lets us suffer because he is all knowing and knows something we don't about our eternal life. He/she can see all times and possibilities at the same time and wants the best for us. Our suffering may be a part of that plan in some way we can't conceive. In the same way that an 18 month old toddler can't know that the painful test they are having will probably save their lives

Maybe the suffering saves our eternal lives, who knows?

Caveat to this. I don't believe in God but I really don't see that the suffering of people on earth is a reason to not believe.

I don't believe in God but I really don't see that the suffering of people on earth is a reason to not believe.

I think for most atheist its the fact that there is a lack of any evidence that suggest a god exists is the reason not to believe

The whole ‘free will’ thing is such an enormous fucking cop-out

That’s my issue with it. Say for example something wonderful happens like a child being cured of cancer. A ton of people pop up praising God, thanking God (how about praising the medical staff who did the work..?). Something awful happens, that’s free will. God only gets involved in the good stuff.

I read a quote by Sean Lennon about religion which made so much sense.

"I'm not against religion, because I think it serves a purpose in our society and it can be helpful to certain groups of people. But, for me, religion is mythology. ... I do think we all have a spirit, and I think there's a lot more to life and human consciousness than science can explain. But I prefer looking to science for answers because it can be tested and vigorously logical."

@Babdoc

So what happens when we all get to heaven? God takes away free will and we all live happily ever after?

If god gives you free will on this earth, and humans do what they do now, then nothing will change when you get to heaven. Murder, abuse, will still continue.

I'm atheist, brought up christian. It didn't take me long to realise that none of it was true or even remotely believable.

I recognise that it gives people (particularly vulnerable ones) a direction to follow, a comfort, and a sense of belonging. Not knocking that.