To Think Remainers Are Starting To Get Really Angry About Brexit?

[KennDodd]

I can feel the mood among Remainers, both IRL and online changing.

Angry in 2016. Angry now. Nothing has changed.

Then if everyone else would have voted remain, but couldn't be bothered to vote, surely it's their fault that remain didn't win?

Why no vitriol being levelled at people who didn't vote at all?

So what you are actually saying is that many remain voters weren't actually motivated enough to vote - so they couldn't have been that bothered by the result.

This is a complex one, I am absolutely furious but feel not too angry at most Leavers on an individual level. I've never heard a proper reason that can be scrutinised as to what the benefits of Leave are, but at the same time can appreciate why people want something to change and if they've read endless articles scapegoating the EU then it was only going to lead to one outcome.

Personally I detest and hate the Conservatives for creating the ideal conditions for this. David Cameron created a furious, polarised society born through austerity, endlessly scapegoated immigrants and the EU then expected the vote to go his way. I watched a documentary on Leave voters, one was in the Black Country in a fairly dodgy estate - when asked why she voted Leave she replied that they just wanted change because anything was better than the present. If someone has nothing to lose - or perceives that nothing could be worse - then why wouldn't they try to vote their way out of it?

Sadly for those people though none of their domestic problems will be solved by exiting the EU, or less immigration, and I wonder who the objects of their justifiable rage will be then? Hopefully the frigging Tory party, because if there is any silver lining it'll be the eradication of them.

As for everything else, I mainly feel sad, miserable that our country that should have so many opportunities is shooting itself in the foot needlessly. Sad that we are so divided, upset that many of us aren't able to think critically beyond the red top headlines, and pissed off that people were so mislead. Also raging that the Leave side did break electoral rules but have escaped any further action because the referendum that we are sticking to so religiously was only advisory. The scales have fallen from my eyes and I now see just how corrupt this nation is.

This is a specific thread about how Remainers feel. Y'know "feelz" - that factor that is only valid if you supported Leave.

It's usually the case that more voters didn't vote for the winning party. Do you expect those results to stand though?

You can’t directly compare GEs, which use FPTP, to the referendum though. Tories won significantly more seats than Labour in 2017 with only a very small % more of the overall vote share.

This is a specific thread about how Remainers feel. Y'know "feelz" - that factor that is only valid if you supported Leave.

Sorry, what?

So what you are actually saying is that many remain voters weren't actually motivated enough to vote - so they couldn't have been that bothered by the result.

I don’t think anyone has said that on this thread?

@PBo83 , when Remainers express their feelings it's some kind of dreadful. When Leavers do it, it's perfectly natural.

when Remainers express their feelings it's some kind of dreadful.

I don't think people believe this. I believe that people (rightly) disagree with the down-talking, belittling and plain insulting of 52% of the ELECTORATE though (not having that argument again).

Nobody has, as far as I can see, an issue with Remain voters being disappointed/angry with the result not being in-line with what they believed was in the best interests of the country (I don't say 'remainers' as that somehow sounds like you are being defined by how you voted in a one-off referendum. I voted Leave but I'm not a 'Leaver', I'm just a guy who happened to vote Leave)

I'm getting angrier and more confused. The closer we get to Brexit the more obvious it is becoming that it is completely unworkable. It's going to trash the economy, threaten the Good Friday agreement and peace in Ireland, have unemployment soaring as what little manufacturing we have toddles off to Europe where they have access to the single market and to top it all off it's been proven that the Leave campaign not only lied through its back teeth but knew it was lying through its back teeth.

Why are people still backing this lunacy? Why?

I mean I get why JRM, BoJo and others rich enough to cash in on disaster capitalism would still back it but why are ordinary folk backing it? Is it stupidity? Stubbornness? A bizarre act of mass self-harm? I don't understand.

We are all supposed to be sympathetic towards these poor, forgotten, left behind people who voted leave (ignoring the fact that the referendum was in part won by wealthy leave voting Tories in the South East) and be understanding of their reasons for voting the way they did. But the people who voted leave don't seem to show any sympathy whatsoever towards people whose lives are being ruined by Brexit. It's all "we won, you lost, get over it".

You can’t directly compare GEs, which use FPTP, to the referendum though. Tories won significantly more seats than Labour in 2017 with only a very small % more of the overall vote share.

I understand that. It's just very interesting how people can seek to dismiss the result of the referendum by arguing that more than 50% of the population didn't vote for leave (ignoring the fact that 100% of the population aren't eligible to vote anyway) yet happily respect other election results that never get more than 50% of votes cast for the winning party.

In the referendum more than 50% of votes cast voted leave. It isn't relevant how those who could have voted but didn't, would have voted. They didn't vote.

Convenient isn't it?

I don't think people believe this. I believe that people (rightly) disagree with the down-talking, belittling and plain insulting of 52% of the PEOPLE THAT VOTED though

Fixed it for you.

ContinuityError

It has certainly been implied that the majority wanted remain. Well why wasn't that reflected in the results? Unless many remain supporters didn't vote?

We are all supposed to be sympathetic towards these poor, forgotten, left behind people who voted leave (ignoring the fact that the referendum was in part won by wealthy leave voting Tories in the South East) and be understanding of their reasons for voting the way they did. But the people who voted leave don't seem to show any sympathy whatsoever towards people whose lives are being ruined by Brexit. It's all "we won, you lost, get over it".

I don't think any leave voters are expecting sympathy are they? I think anyone whose life is negatively impacted by circumstances beyond their control, however, is likely to garner a bit of sympathy from people regardless of their political persuasion.

I must confess to growing a little tired of all these hypothetical lives being ruined by something that hasn't happened yet. I understand that there will be some people who are negatively affected as a direct/indirect result of Brexit (as I'm sure there will be those that benefit). The fault of this, however, lies more significantly with the politicians managing it than with individual leave voters.

@GottenGottenGotten

Agreed, an error on my part there.

I accepted the decision even though I don't agree, didn't agree will never agree. I'm angry that much more should have been said at the time of the referendum about the implications of the Good Friday Agreement. I'm angry because I don't think the Leave arguments are credible. I'm angry because I think voters were fed a load of old rubbish by that awful toad Farage and his UKIP cronies for years playing on people's fears & perceived damage caused by immigration from the EU and I'm angry because I think those who voted leave did so thinking it would be an easy process where we would be free of the tyranny of the EU and it would be a wonderful utopia where Britannia rules the waves, no horrible immigrants take jobs or benefits, the nhs grows a magic money tree and no-one else can tell us what to do or how to spend our money.

Totally unrealistic, over simplified and based on rhetoric not facts. So yes, I'm angry about that, and I'm angry because I want to be part of Europe & think previously we had the best of both worlds (monetary policy autonomy / veto etc). Sure, the EU is a corrupt, useless money pit with a bunch of countries who couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery but it's also our major trading partner and political ally.

But pretty much I'm just angry. The vindictive part of me wants no-deal, crash out see how you like the reality. The sensible part of me wants long extension / second referendum - a way back.

The really sensible part of me says do not enter into any conversations with anyone you know about Brexit. So on a daily level I just can't talk about it & prefer to concentrate on the positives & things I have in common with those friends I know voted to leave. Never the Twain and all that - because people have just become so entrenched, there really is no point! Not sure why I'm posting here having said that.

do remainers, leavers or anyone in between think he's be a good choice for pm ?? all governments in the upteen years have been hopeless, no one has been better than the other. jc in charge really would be a disaster,

I was angry to start with , then became resigned and now frankly I am apoplectic. I am not blind to the faults of the EU but nothing was so bad about the EU that it outweighs the disadvantages to leaving. It’s the largest and most successful free trade area in the world , no it’s not perfect , but frankly we don’t seem to have the perfect system either .

I cannot quite believe that we have gone from being one of the most respected and stable nations in the world to being a basket case. I don’t recognise my own country.

I am sick of being told we will manage like we did in the war; that’s the war that we would have lost if the US hadn’t rescued us .,, they hardly look like a good bet at the moment either . Have we such a paucity of ambition for our young people that the best we can hope for is that they ‘ will manage’ All these leavers who want to turn the clock back and make us into a museum piece .

And just for good measure I am sick of hearing about political parties and what it will mean for various politicians . This is s national issue not a party one

JC in charge would be a bigger disaster than Brexit. The man is a total lunatic!!

I think anyone whose life is negatively impacted by circumstances beyond their control, however, is likely to garner a bit of sympathy from people regardless of their political persuasion.

You would think so, wouldn't you, but apparently not.

I must confess to growing a little tired of all these hypothetical lives being ruined by something that hasn't happened yet. I understand that there will be some people who are negatively affected as a direct/indirect result of Brexit (as I'm sure there will be those that benefit). The fault of this, however, lies more significantly with the politicians managing it than with individual leave voters.

A great many of the negative effects of Brexit are already happening. Some people have already lost their jobs as a direct result of Brexit, for example. People living in the EU are in limbo. House purchases have fallen through. Some people are already struggling to get their prescriptions filled due to Brexit related supply chain issues. I have personally lost £177 today due to Brexit because I cannot get to a same day passport appointment in London because the Eurostar is not running...due to Brexit.

You know what's even more offensive than shrugging your shoulders and saying you don't care about the problems other people are suffering due to Brexit?

Denying that the problems exist.

You know what's even more offensive than shrugging your shoulders and saying you don't care about the problems other people are suffering due to Brexit?

Denying that the problems exist.

I didn't deny problems existed:

" I understand that there will be some people who are negatively affected as a direct/indirect result of Brexit"

What I was suggesting is catastrophising about 'ruined lives' and a 'ruined economy' when we are still going through a transitional phase isn't helpful. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's the spreading of widespread panic which actually exacerbates certain issues.

arseabouttit

I hear what you are saying about the leave campaign. I dislike Farage et al intensely and didn't pay any heed to their campaign. But, really, where was the Remain campaign? They really didn't put up any counter arguments and what they did was so badly presented by the Tories that I'm really not surprised that many people voted leave.

Right, next thing you're going to whip out the old "Project Fear" trope, am I right?

I don't think accusing people of "catastrophising" when they are merely pointing out the likely and indeed in some cases inevitable consequences of the situation we are in (which is about as serious a situation as the country has been in since WWII) is helpful either.