Man doing my pedicure

[eyesbiggerthanstomach]

I'm having a rubbish day so maybe am being super sensitive but not sure. There is a nail bar I regularly go to. A few men work there but it's mainly women. Usually one of the women does my pedicure. I have had one or two of the men do it in the past too.

Anyway, am currently getting one done by a man and I'm feeling really uncomfortable. I can't explain why. Maybe because he is slow and so every touch feels like it's lasting ages but I'm not enjoying it.

Is it unreasonable to specify a woman does it in future?

Cheerio, you’re just not quite able to keep up with this are you? Not wanting a man to touch you, is not an accusation. It’s a preference, or a precaution or a way of limiting anxiety due to past trauma. If you can’t understand that, you are being very dim.

Has anyone ever tested the EA over a matter like this?

I really can't believe that having a pedicure is one of the reasons for protected characteristics being exempted.

Surely if anyone feels strongly about this then they need to find a manicurist/ beautician that they are happy with a book direct?

Personally, I'm more concerned about the welfare of anyone having to work in these nail bars. A large number of whom are trafficked.

This is relevant to EA and sex discrimination. There is nothing in the law to prevent anyone from requesting a specific sex for services or care that requires touching a persons body. I would imagine most sensible people would realise it’s an infringement of someone’s bodily autonomy, and most would consider it reasonable for all the reasons outlined in this thread.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/sex-discrimination

This is called an occupational requirement. This includes some jobs which require someone of a particular sex for reasons of privacy and decency or where personal services are provided.

These are the grounds given by that link.

Would a pedicure really count as reasons of privacy or decency or a personal service?

Would a pedicure really count as reasons of privacy or decency or a personal service?

I would say not! It's a pedicure, not an internal examination, anything above the ankle can be covered.

Would a pedicure really count as reasons of privacy or decency or a personal service?

I think so, I believe Beaty treatments would come under that. The fact is, you’re being touched in an area that you don’t normally get touched by other people you don’t know. I honestly can’t imagine why anyone would want to force anyone to be touched by a male if they weren’t comfortable with it, either with intimate care or with what is supposed to be a relaxing service. Do you really want to go down the, well you can say no to be touched there but not here, route? I trained as a masseuse but haven’t practiced in many years. I would never question a client who came in and requested just males or just females to give them, say, reflexology. Nor refuse their custom. You never know what has lead to their discomfort.

Why not send an email to the equality commission if it’s peaked your interest.

I wouldn't insist anyone has to be touched. I just think it's quite shakey ground to advise that someone can refuse on the grounds of a protected characteristic, excepting the for intimate procedures etc.

I don't think anyone would advise refusing a pedicure based on race, religion or sexual orientation would they?

Would no one be concerned if someone refused to let a hairdresser cut their because she was female?

I don't think anyone would advise refusing a pedicure based on race, religion or sexual orientation would they?
I think that’s a false equivalency.

Has anyone ever tested the EA over a matter like this?

I've requested a female masseuse more than once. I'm not sure how the equality act would really be 'tested' anyway. If a customer's request was refused they'd presumably just go elsewhere.

I think that’s a false equivalency.

Why?

Bluestitch

A massage is different though isn't it? Surely that would come under exemptions for privacy, decency or a personal service because you are undressed.

Tbh it's never come up when I've been having other beauty treatments, it's always been women working there anyway. And when you have a regular salon you often book with a specific person. I'd refuse a man, it's as simple as that really.

If you don't want people to be sensitive maybe request one of the females by name. It's not unreasonable at all.

I don't feel comfortable with women's boundaries being compared to racism. I'm a black woman and already feel on the back foot for being a woman and being black. I don't think sexual orientation can be compared either and I think it's ridiculous to do so.

The car instructor comparison is also strange, there are plenty of driving schools who advertise as being a female instructor because some women would rather not go off in a car with a male stranger. Thankfully all the men in my life completely understand that.

The thing is though we have the EA which makes it illegal to discriminate on the grounds of protected characteristics except under certain conditions.

If you unofficially widen those you can't just do so on the basis of women's boundaries (unless the Act is changed). And of course sex can be compared to race, religion or sexual orientation. Would you accept someone refusing a person because they were black or gay, even if they thought they had very good reason for doing so?

Would it be ok the other way round? Could a woman refuse to give a pedicure to a man? By the way, I'm not talking about intimate treatments or procedures.

And of course sex can be compared to race, religion or sexual orientation.

No it can’t. Sex is an inherent biological difference. That’s why we have sex separated spaces- or do you think it’s discriminating for men and women not to undress in front of each other? It’s very normal and non-controversial in my life experience, for people to want health and beauty care involving physical touching, from the same sex as them.
I’ve never had an issue asking for a female to undertake beauty or massage treatments of any kind. Most people understand and respect it.

I'm pretty sure it isn't illegal for me to request a female beautician. I'm not going to be prosecuted for refusing to let a man give me a pedicure. The salon may have legal obligations as employers but I can discriminate over who touches me, my body isn't subject to equality law.

Surely skin colour is also a biological difference?

I totally get changing rooms etc or massages, and so does the EA.

I suppose I apply situations where I have been asked if I'm ok with a man treating me. I've never been asked by my dentist, podiatrist etc.

I don't know. I would be annoyed if a man did it to me so that's how I'm viewing it I guess

I totally get changing rooms etc or massages, and so does the EA.

How can you 'get it' about changing rooms on the one hand and then argue from the position that conflates all difference under equality laws on the other?

Weetabix if you understand for changing rooms then you surely see why comparing race is invalid in this context?

I can discriminate over who touches me, my body isn't subject to equality law

As I understand it, that is true under current laws.

*Surely skin colour is also a biological difference?

Not comparable to sex differences. You sound like a TRA.

I would be annoyed if a man did it to me so that's how I'm viewing it I guess

Are you in an occupation where you touch people’s bodies for extended periods of time? I have been and I get it, and I was never offended.

When it comes to bodies and parts of bodies, it’s not for others to decide what sort of touch is intimate or personal and which isn’t. It is entirely the decision of the person whose body it is. I would be extremely uncomfortable with any stranger touching my feet because I find it intensely intimate. For that reason I probably would never have a pedicure at all and so the sex of the therapist would be irrelevant, but it is absolutely not unreasonable for anyone to decline a service involving physical touch from someone of the opposite sex (or the same sex for that matter, if that person has their own reasons for feeling uncomfortable about that).

And it doesn’t need to be explained, justified or apologised for.