Amber Rudd

[sue51]

I'm seeking to understand the differences between the terms “coloured women” and “women of colour”. They sound intrinsically similar but they may well be different, and a web search didn’t help in defining the difference.

The first term was used by Amber Rudd yesterday, and she quickly apologised as it had caused offence, but was still under criticism in the main national news. If a term is offensive then it’s right that it isn’t used, and where it has been used that should be the subject of an apology.

However, the term “women of colour” was used on Radio 4 this morning, and a review of the play Richard II at the Sam Wannamaker Playhouse by the Guardian’s Michael Billington prominently used the term “women of colour”, and one would have thought, given the Guardian’s credentials, that the term would not be used if it was likely to cause offence.

So, and asked in all sincerity, can anyone explain the difference between these two terms, and why one is deemed to be offensive while the other is apparently not? I would be mortified if I used a term which caused offence to someone but am genuinely curious about the difference in this case.

Society generally. I wish to goodness a woman of colour my age was posting on this thread.

Amber Rudd doesn’t live in the US. What they do and don’t say there is irrelevant.

So a large English speaking country with a large black population and huge influence over the media inc. films and television, watched by English speakers around the world .. is irrelevant ... Okay.

Even if you accept that it wasn’t considered a racist term 40 or 20 years ago (which I’m prepared to take your word for) that is irrelevant.
Today it is known to be a racist term. When I was young we might have called the Chinese takeaway a chinky but there is no way on earth I would do that now. The fact 40 years ago it was ok is neither here nor there. Amber Rudd was minister for equalities just one year ago. The fact she would be so ignorant of offensive terms is unacceptable. It was her job to know.

‘Coloured’ is racist - woman of colour, people of colour is not. It’s that simple. White people dont get to decide what’s racist and what isn’t. End of. ‘Coloured’ for me is a throw back to the days of wog, gollys, half- caste and all that other racist degrading language. Words matter. I’d give Rudd the benefit of the doubt that she meant to say women of colour but she didn’t - and IF she actually thinks of a black Roman as ‘coloured’ then yes she’s a bloody racist.

Society generally.

That is not a credible answer, human. It's an excuse for using an inappropriate term.

She made a silly mistake she shouldn’t have

That’s it . I don’t think she will do it again

Onwards

Whether we like it or not how American black people refer to themselves does influence English speakers in the UK; because they are the English speaking country with the largest population of black people (outside of African countries that use English as their first language) and has a huge input into media that we watch.

So a large English speaking country with a large black population and huge influence over the media inc. films and television, watched by English speakers around the world .. is irrelevant ... Okay.
Well either that or we accept that the average British person is so stupid they cannot separate the traditions of another country from their own because they’ve seen it on TV.
Maybe people are that stupid, are you?

It’s ok you’ve answered by question, you are, fair enough.

'The least we could expect of a senior politician is that she regularly reads the news!'

Yes and I'll ask again why can't you accept she made a mistake and has apologised. Why cant you focus on her well intended support of Abbott rather than the incorrect word she used?

It seems all you want Bert is constant validation that you're right. You are, now what?

But anyway, back on topic, whether it was considered a polite term in certain parts of the UK up til the 80s (it certainly bead where I grew up) , it has come to be deemed as racist in the last 20/30 years and people, esp someone in her position should know that and choose her language with care.

Yes and I'll ask again why can't you accept she made a mistake and has apologised.
Because it’s her job not to make that kind of mistake. Because how can she represent the BAME community when she is so casually racist. Because words do matter.

I would be more bothered if she was minimising it by saying coloured/ poc same difference. She hasn't though.

All politicians drop clangers when being interviewed. The content of the interview should be discussed as thoroughly as the 'mistake'. Sadly as demonstrated here that doesn't happen.

I was privately educated alongside black & Asian girls in the UK - 80's & 90's. Coloured was not a word we used. Don't use their education as an excuse!

language is fascinating. When they were younger my twins watched a lot of US TV and words they used eg gotten were from US English which i don't use and I didn't want US programems or see media ( i just read the FT etc). So what becomes known as offensive in a particular foreign country might be known to some people in the UK but not others presumably.

I don't really like the US phrase "person of colour" I think it's much better if we can just avoiding talking about what colour people are entirely as it is often a bit rude to mention it.

We are certainly becoming a more global world although remember tons of people don't even have computers and mobile phones (like my neighbour and plenty of others) so there is no reason some people would know what is awful in the US but okay in the UK or vice versa.

It’s ok you’ve answered by question, you are, fair enough.

Ooohh, somebody's triggered! Triggered enough to be calling complete strangers online STUPID. You wouldn't be saying it to my face dear.

Keyboard warrior.

But maybe you don't recognise the word triggered because you apparently exist in a rarified stratosphere where language and colloquialisms aren't affected bit influenced by the media people watch - esp young people - and people lack judgement and are stupid if they let themselves be influenced. Very realistic.

@facsicle, it wasn’t offensive then. Why do we insist on judging the past by today’s mores? “The past is another country, they do things differently there”.

Our language evolves. We take words from other languages and make them our own. Words come into and fallout of common usage. We may use words with our friends and we wouldn't use on legal documents or in court.

My parents are in their eighties and say 'coloured' despite me saying to them it's not a word we use now. The also use 'backward' to describe people with learning difficulties.
However they are not politicians.
She should know which words to use.
She has now apologised.

@gamerwidow

(same applies to culture incidentally, you must be wilfully blind or naive or very poorly educated if you believe cultures and traditions from different countries don't influence each other when people are exposed to them).

Can we at least accept that Benedict Cumberbatch, who was 10 in 1985 was probably not brought up to think “coloured” was the polite term?

I think he probably was, his parents would have grown up in the 40s/50s when it was the acceptable term and they would have taught him to use it.

So how old is the youngest person who won’t get a free pass for using “coloured”?

I think it's much better if we can just avoiding talking about what colour people are entirely.
They have studied the approach of not discussing race with kids because everyone is the same and they discovered that when parents don't discuss race with their kids - their kids have a more negative view of different races they think it's because their kids tend to fill in their gaps in their knowledge in a negative way.

I think language changes over time, and while some older people might revert to inappropriate language this shouldn't apply to someone in Amber Rudd's situation. It is a term my generation was brought up with but as far back as the 80's it wasn't acceptable to use that term, well certainly unwise if you lived where I did in London.

However she has said she is mortified by her use of that word and has apologised, I think she has respect for Diane Abbott. I think Diane should accept her apology in the spirit of which it was given and I hope she can be gracious about it, and let us see that hidden charisma she used to show.

Cumberbatch has a young child, I think. If he was taught that “coloured” was polite even at a time when everyone on this thread agrees tht it was not, then is it OK to teach his child the same?