Amber Rudd

[sue51]

I'm seeking to understand the differences between the terms “coloured women” and “women of colour”. They sound intrinsically similar but they may well be different, and a web search didn’t help in defining the difference.

The first term was used by Amber Rudd yesterday, and she quickly apologised as it had caused offence, but was still under criticism in the main national news. If a term is offensive then it’s right that it isn’t used, and where it has been used that should be the subject of an apology.

However, the term “women of colour” was used on Radio 4 this morning, and a review of the play Richard II at the Sam Wannamaker Playhouse by the Guardian’s Michael Billington prominently used the term “women of colour”, and one would have thought, given the Guardian’s credentials, that the term would not be used if it was likely to cause offence.

So, and asked in all sincerity, can anyone explain the difference between these two terms, and why one is deemed to be offensive while the other is apparently not? I would be mortified if I used a term which caused offence to someone but am genuinely curious about the difference in this case.

Very much doubt she wrote the speech herself: probably just wasn’t thinking on her feet fast enough to substitute with the appropriate word.

Nobody gets a free pass. Nobody should say it. This furore should help ensure that the people who still think it’s OK realise they’re wrong.

JRM, it wasn’t a prewritten speech. It was a spontaneous reply to an interview question.

Alsohuman

That’s me told, I’ll get my coat

If a black women is offended by a white women referring to her as coloured, then it matters.

It doesn't matter if the context of the conversation was in support/defence of the black woman. The use of the term coloured is offensive.

Unsurprisingly most of the commentary I've seen on this are white people minimising and telling black people how to feel and react. Classic example of white privilege.

But don't worry most black people are shrugging their shoulders and carrying on with our lives, because this is how we now expect most white people to behave.

Moralitym1n1 yes cultures influence but people know the difference between the two. If the influence from the US was that pernicious we would all be using the term African British in mimicry but no-one does because although we hear the term African American all the time in the media we know its usage is not correct in the UK.
People should know the term coloured is not acceptable in 2019 in the UK. To say otherwise is making excuses for ignorance and being an apologist for racists.

So how old is the youngest person who won’t get a free pass for using “coloured”?
No age limit apparently because people who use SM can't be expected to distinguish between UK and US common usage.

I attended a comprehensive on a mixed race housing estate in the 80s.

I remember a very middle class, ‘right-on’ teacher correcting a pupil’s use of the word “coloured” when referring to her friends (“they don’t like it”) and being told by those friends that they did like it and preferred it to “black”!

We all knew that they couldn’t care less either way - it was the presumption of the teacher that really got their backs up.

I do find it absolutely incredible that the defence of casual racism is the hill people are prepared to die on.

Anyone remember when Diane Abbott said

"White people love playing 'divide & rule"

That's pretty overt racism right there.

People/person/woman/man of colour is acceptable!
Slightly different but my son has Down’s syndrome and it is very important to use person first language so my son has Down’s syndrome he is not down’s or a downs kid, his Down’s syndrome does not define him similarly Diane Abbott is a woman of colour she is not coloured! The colour of her skin does not define her!

Tanith I agree that white people telling black people what they should be offended about must get right on black peoples tits but in this case the black person in question is offended we are not assuming offence on her behalf.

I find it disappointing that, in the furore over the word Amber Rudd used, the important message about women being subjected to abuse and harrassment online has been completely overshadowed.

Amber Rudd should not have used the word, caused offence and apologised for it.
Her point still stands.

I grew up in the 70s in a very white area & was taught to use coloured as the polite word. And if you asked me I would have said that neither my parents or most of the community were racist. But looking back there was probably casual (uneducated) racism rather than malicious nastiness. So ‘coloured’ was used as a euphemism because being ‘black’ was subconsciously seen as something that the person couldn’t help & shouldn’t be mentioned. Which is terribly racist when I think about it now, but not malicious at the time.

Words come up in popularity.

Then someone decides it’s officially offensive and everyone MUST use the new word.

Then that word becomes offensive...

The internet has speeded up the process.

I do have a problem with the amount of eye rolling I have to do nowadays.

Gamerwidow I was pointing out that the term “coloured” was used, and considered acceptable by some, in the 80s

“Her point still stands.”
Well, yes. But it was a point she made in answer to a question-not spontaneously. And she was hardly going to say “coloured women have it coming to them if they put their heads above the parapet” was she?

I don’t think people should be hugely praised for showing basic human decency.

I'd give her a pass on this
and I'm BAME - we're not a hive mind

Rudd was actually expressing sympathy - clumsily ! - for the disgraceful racism that Abbott faces every day, as a woman of colour, who is prominant in public life

I'm cross with Abbott for playing politics and throwing this back in her face,
instead of appreciating the sentiments, but gently correcting the terminology

It'll be quite a while before another Tory dares express sympathy for MPs across the aisle who experience tacism
That's a backward step in tackling the bitter political divide we have.

Rudd had a brainfart and used the wrong term, then apologised as soon as she realised
She didn't keep trying to justify herself

@Bert terminology changes in the rest of the country lag decades behind the mc London / civil service bubble

I've certainly experienced this over my 62 years and soon learned to distinguish between those who are racist and those who are just behind the language changes

I've heard a few lovely friends - in their 50s and 60s now - use the word "coloured" within the last decade
and I've gently told them this isn't an acceptable term any longer.

No feelings were hurt on either side

@gamerwidow, this thread has unanimously condemned casual racism, perhaps you’re reading something different?

I find it disappointing that, in the furore over the word Amber Rudd used, the important message about women being subjected to abuse and harrassment online has been completely overshadowed

Oh I agree, If commentators had just let Amber Rudd apologise and moved on instead of insisting what she said wasn't that bad this conversation would be over with by now and we'd be focusing on the real issue.

And, in the meantime, we squabble and pontificate over a single word while ignoring the abuse towards women online.

this thread unanimously condemned casual racism, perhaps you’re reading something different?
It hasn't though, it's a thread full of people saying it's ok to say something racist because people did in the 80s.

Tainth you know you can do both. I'm quite good at multi tasking.

“this conversation would be over with by now and we'd be focusing on the real issue.”

We wouldn’t, you know. We’d still be ignoring the real issue!

Because generally the only time there is a wide discussion about racism is when a white person feels unjustly accused of it.