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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Amber Rudd

465 replies

sue51 · 08/03/2019 09:42

I'm seeking to understand the differences between the terms “coloured women” and “women of colour”. They sound intrinsically similar but they may well be different, and a web search didn’t help in defining the difference.

The first term was used by Amber Rudd yesterday, and she quickly apologised as it had caused offence, but was still under criticism in the main national news. If a term is offensive then it’s right that it isn’t used, and where it has been used that should be the subject of an apology.

However, the term “women of colour” was used on Radio 4 this morning, and a review of the play Richard II at the Sam Wannamaker Playhouse by the Guardian’s Michael Billington prominently used the term “women of colour”, and one would have thought, given the Guardian’s credentials, that the term would not be used if it was likely to cause offence.

So, and asked in all sincerity, can anyone explain the difference between these two terms, and why one is deemed to be offensive while the other is apparently not? I would be mortified if I used a term which caused offence to someone but am genuinely curious about the difference in this case.

OP posts:
DonaldTwain · 09/03/2019 08:25

The term coloured has historical associations that make it unacceptable. Personally I don’t much like women of colour or BAME either, on the grounds that they lump all diverse people who happen not to be white into a homogeneous mass. It kind of perpetuates the notion that there’s white people, then there’s everyone else.
I grew up calling people black or Asian (grew up in the north west where those are the most significant minority groups) and tend to stick with that. Is that wrong now? Who knows.

Peanut1983 · 09/03/2019 08:36

Wasn't Amber Rudd talking about her in a positive way though? Surely that had to count for something? I mean she wasn't being mean or bitching about her. It was a comment that was well meaning about online abuse and how it needs to stop.

I don't think we should all gang up on Rudd because she unintentionally used some clumsy language. It's putting up a barrier that is making people afraid to speak for fear of putting their foot in it. There are so many things you can't say these days. It seems to change all the time. Unless you have social media or regularly read news it's impossible to keep up with it all.

GucciDay · 09/03/2019 08:52

'Wasn't Amber Rudd talking about her in a positive way though? Surely that had to count for something? I mean she wasn't being mean or bitching about her. It was a comment that was well meaning about online abuse and how it needs to stop.'

Exactly. She made a mistake and the well intentioned message has been totally lost.

ElizabethMainwaring · 09/03/2019 08:53

Totally agreeing with peanut and Gucci.

BackinTimeforBeer · 09/03/2019 08:54

Was "coloured" ok years ago? Or was it just something white people used and so that made it ok by their reckoning?

ElizabethMainwaring · 09/03/2019 08:56

Beer, if you read the thread you'll find it discusses that very issue.

BertrandRussell · 09/03/2019 08:59

“There are so many things you can't say these days. It seems to change all the time. Unless you have social media or regularly read news it's impossible to keep up with it all.”

  1. There really, really aren’t!
  2. Coloured has been unacceptable for more than 20 years.
  3. The least we could expect of a senior politician is that she regularly reads the news!
Alsohuman · 09/03/2019 08:59

It seems that a leading US civil rights organisation is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which invited Obama to its centenary celebrations. Clearly it’s offensive here but the memo doesn’t seem to have reached the US.

Faffandahalf · 09/03/2019 09:00

I would love to hear from a black person on MN who was around in the 70’s to tell us they were ok with being called coloured because it was totes polite.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:02

It was the polite term when I was growing up and describing someone as black was considered insulting and rude.

Same here - that's why I felt sorry for Benedict cumberbatch; we were brought up thinking it was the polite/respectful way to say black.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:02

(and I presumed he was too).

BertrandRussell · 09/03/2019 09:05

Benedict Cumberbatch was born in 1976! It certainly wasn’t the “polite term” when he was growing up!

gamerwidow · 09/03/2019 09:08

Coloured has been known to be offensive for at least 20 years in the uk.
She was minister for equalities in 2018 the idea that she would not know this beggars belief.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:08

It seems that a leading US civil rights organisation is the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which invited Obama to its centenary celebrations. Clearly it’s offensive here but the memo doesn’t seem to have reached the US.

Also in day to day, colloquial language I've seen black women in the US use it on TV (and not in a harsh way like black people calling each other the n word, just in a natural, neutral way).

It was a bridezilla episode with a southern black family and the sister if the bride commented (when guests turned up on time, while the pre ceremony photos were being taken) "what are they doing here, they're early, they're on white-collar time instead of coloured-people time!".

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:09

*white-people time

Alsohuman · 09/03/2019 09:10

You keep saying this @Bertrand, despite being repeatedly assured by countless other people that outside London and possibly other big cities it absolutely was the case. Why don’t you just accept it? We all agree it’s unacceptable now but it wasn’t 40 years ago.

gamerwidow · 09/03/2019 09:10

Moralitym1n1
Amber Rudd doesn’t live in the US. What they do and don’t say there is irrelevant.

gamerwidow · 09/03/2019 09:11

wasn’t 40 years ago
Possibly not 40 years ago but definitely since mid 80s.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:11

Benedict Cumberbatch was born in 1976! It certainly wasn’t the “polite term” when he was growing up!

So was I - and it must definitely was what I was given to think was a polite way to refer to black people; that's why I felt sorry for him. I thought he was trying to be polite. It also fitted with what I knew of his personality/demeanour.

fascicle · 09/03/2019 09:12

...that's why I felt sorry for Benedict cumberbatch

Benedict Cumberbatch and Amber Rudd - privately educated, from privileged backgrounds - no excuses for not knowing better.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:12

Or he seems very unlikely to want to offend anyone.

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:13

You keep saying this @Bertrand, despite being repeatedly assured by countless other people that outside London and possibly other big cities it absolutely was the case. Why don’t you just accept it? We all agree it’s unacceptable now but it wasn’t 40 years ago.

Exactly.

Maybe it was different in London/parts of England but I'm from a region of the UK and seriously we were brought up thinking it wax more polite and softer than "black".

Alsohuman · 09/03/2019 09:14

Privately educated so least likely to know better, I’d have thought. There’s not much exposure to reality in ivory towers.

fascicle · 09/03/2019 09:15

Alsohuman
We all agree it’s unacceptable now but it wasn’t 40 years ago.

I did ask before - to whom was it acceptable?

Moralitym1n1 · 09/03/2019 09:16

Also I'm not "privately educated, from privileged backgrounds".

And even if someone was, they can't read/speak to people who aren't etc.?

I genuinely think he used it because he was conditioned to use word that to be polite.

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