Amber Rudd

[sue51]

I'm seeking to understand the differences between the terms “coloured women” and “women of colour”. They sound intrinsically similar but they may well be different, and a web search didn’t help in defining the difference.

The first term was used by Amber Rudd yesterday, and she quickly apologised as it had caused offence, but was still under criticism in the main national news. If a term is offensive then it’s right that it isn’t used, and where it has been used that should be the subject of an apology.

However, the term “women of colour” was used on Radio 4 this morning, and a review of the play Richard II at the Sam Wannamaker Playhouse by the Guardian’s Michael Billington prominently used the term “women of colour”, and one would have thought, given the Guardian’s credentials, that the term would not be used if it was likely to cause offence.

So, and asked in all sincerity, can anyone explain the difference between these two terms, and why one is deemed to be offensive while the other is apparently not? I would be mortified if I used a term which caused offence to someone but am genuinely curious about the difference in this case.

Feel free to explain.

Read my previous posts. I think there’s a way of highlighting a particular poster? Otherwise advanced search is your friend.

I have read them and my characterisation of your comments is accurate and fair. I don’t think you dare try to justify yourself.

Yep. Utterly terrified.

“Fair enough- don’t answer the question. The Jewish people I know would, I am pretty sure, tick the “White British” box on a form, and would not think they counted a BAME.”

Bertrand, I am Jewish and I would never tick White British. Because I am not white British.

I always tick other.

Bertrand hasn't yet responded to the posts attempting to educate her as to whether Jews are an ethnic group. Especially the one telling her that it's a question generally only asked by anti-semites.

Thank you,wasabi. I’m actually seeing someone very shortly that I’m going to ask. I expect to have my arse handed to me.........
I think I was imagining a Venn diagram with people who are ethnically Jewish, people who are faith Jewish and people who are both.

Thyme
Much more likely that AR was concentrating on what she was saying rather than the language she used. But we will have to agree to differ.

Even being charitable about the possible cause and intentions, I think it's extraordinary that there is zero recognition/there are no body language clues to register that she said anything wrong at the time, whilst later purporting to be mortified:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47488050/amber-rudd-refers-to-diane-abbott-as-a-coloured-woman

I can't buy into your theory about Diane Abbott milking it either - unless she has given interviews/written articles that I am unaware of, she seems to have said surprisingly little on the subject. As you say, we will have to agree to disagree.

Alsohuman
Not sure why you're expecting me to report back on Diane Abbot's achievements, which will be highly subjective and dependent on the political and social views of the assessor. I am not an advocate for Diane Abbott, I just happen to agree with her on this incident and on some other things. She has supported, worked on and spoken out about social justice and equality issues throughout her career. She has also said/done plenty of things that I don't agree with. And whatever people think of her, the people who she represents have kept her in her constituency for 30+ years.

Aussie
I'm so sorry that my use of English isn't quite clear enough for you, Fascicle. I am good at Maths, if that's any help.

BTW do you troll professionally, or is it just a hobby?

Your post was ambiguous, which made your meaning unclear, Aussie. If I was troll material, I doubt I would have been on this site for the best part of a decade using one username, with no posts deleted.

And I am never mistaken for White British either. I am often aked “no, where are you REALLY from?”

Usually only my immigrants as White British people are usually too polite (or maybe scared” to ask.

The person I am waiting in this bar looks as if he and his family have lived in Surrey and been stockbrokers since 1547. He doesn’t quite wear red cords but it’s a close run thing....

Facsicle AR was mortified AFTER the event when she realised/was told what she'd said. Any other interpretation would imply she did it deliberately and didn't see anything wrong in it. Which I find very difficult to believe.

Yep. Utterly terrified.

Well, that’s just silly, BetrandRussell and just confirms the fact that you quite unable to justify your earlier comments.

Yes Dianne Abbott has repeatedly been elected as MP in a constituency in which a duck billed platypus would be elected if it wore a red rosette. Please forgive me if I don’t interpret that as a glorious political achievement. She’s sure as hell no Castle, Harmon or Jo Cox.

alsohuman-you seem to think that this thread is full of Abbott fans. Why?

Again I was answering fascicle. Why are you making this all about you?

Recrudescence-I am being glib because I don’t know what you’re expecting of me. I’ve said what I think, but you seem to be expecting me to say more. Can you tell me what you want, please?

BetrandRussell

I’ve just noticed my own typo - I should have written unhelpful

Do you concede that you described BigChocFrenzy’s comments on this thread as wrong and unhelpful?

No. I said that while she was, of course, free to deal with casual racism directed at her in whatever way suits her, I don’t think that the “softly softly” approach that works for her in her private life is the best way of dealing with casual racism in politics or in wider society.

My question: Do you think all the people who disagree with you on this thread - including a BAME poster who would “give [Rudd] a pass on this one” - are guilty of casual racism?

Your answer: I think BigChocFrenzy is mistaken ... I do not think her approach is helpful in societal or political terms.

To avoid causing offence by selecting the wrong adjective, I use "looks like Diane Abbott".

Recrudescence- If you are going to quote me, please quote me in full. I said
“I think BigChocFrenzy is mistaken. She is perfectly at liberty, of course, to respond to casual racism directed to her personally however she likes. I do not think her approach is helpful in societal or political terms.”
I make a clear distinction between what works for her on a personal level, and what I believe would work/not work on a political/societal level. I am not sure how I can express that any more clearly.

The full quotation doesn’t help you, if anything it simply confirms how arrogant you are. You are saying that BigChocFrenzy’s views only have value in the personal and subjective sphere and that she cannot contribute to this debate in a “useful” way. As a BAME woman she offers a view about how to respond to being called coloured and your reaction, in a monumentally arrogant piece of condescension, is that her view is “wrong” and irrelevant.

You know what? I think we should stop talking about BigChocFrenzy in her absence.

My final point. Saying that it is unacceptable for me to disagree with her on this subject because she is black and I am not is extraordinarily patronising.

No more patronising than you saying she was “mistaken”.

since when has not agreeing with somebody been patronizing?
Thinking somebody is mistaken but not saying so because they are black is practically the definition of patronizing.

Shit, I’ve been drawn back.