AIBU or is this a MAJOR safeguarding issue?

[Whatthefudgeisthis]

NC for this,

I’ve been absolutely stunned at the ignorance shown by the organisers with this one! A naturist night at the water park 😱 this place is designed for kids entertainment, it’s basically loads of water slides a wave pool and play area etc
Who in their right mind would take a child to such an event. Obviously I’m not shooting down naturists, each to their own, but this is an event that ANYONE can attend. Known paedophiles have attended these events, with one saying that he can’t even swim. What the actual fuck is going on? Who thought this one up?
If adults want to swim naked that’s their call, but why open the event to children too?

I’m pretty sure I’m not the one missing the blindingly obvious here, but I’m so amazed at the stupidity I had to share and maybe raise some awareness.

www.stokesentinel.co.uk/whats-on/family-nude-swimming-session-coming-2589946

These events are being held across the country, so there’s possibly one near you.

I personally don't have a problem with naturists, each to their own and be free to do what you want imo. You go on holiday and there's nudist beaches all over, i think we're quite prudish in this country on the whole. What I did have a bit of a problem with was the naked family swim! If its a naked family swim then fine, go and swim naked with your family. My issue cane from the amount of single, older men going to the event. I know that might sound very narrow minded but it was advertised as 'a family swim' NOT a 'any tom, dick or Harry' swim. I did find it a little uncomfortable watching the amount of single men arriving covering their faces. Saying that, I did find the protesters outside the event quite aggressive and intimidating.

This event time is 8-10pm so unlikely to get very young children attending imo so risks are reduced. No activity is risk free and I really struggle with the issue of having a simple bit of cloth covering the body suddenly makes a child safe in the pool tbh. What makes a child safe is a good talking relationship with a parent, adequate supervision, awareness of risk factors, and a child’s understanding of CSE so they themselves can keep themselves safe. If parents take a child swimming they have to do everything they would normally do whether they wear clothes or not. I simply think that this is complete over reaction because of our British prudishness because frankly peadophiles are everywhere and kids are no more at risk clothed or naked.

whatthefudgeisthis totally totally agree there are so many dirty shits out there looking for any opportunity! Let alone inevevitably dangling a carrot so to speak for them! Its disgusting as far as im concerned its not right!

In Finland people sauna naked, and that includes children in public saunas. Is the whole country of Finland a "safeguarding issue?'

It is a bit different to this though, in Finland public saunas are strictly sex segregated and outside of the sauna/shower you wear a towel, there's no hanging out naked, so quite different from this event.

But to reference earlier points about children growing up used to nudity around strangers not having boundaries, I have to disagree. My daughter is very used to nudity around strangers because of public saunas but the other day we were at the doctors and she has dry itchy skin on her legs so the doctor asked her to take her trousers off to take a look and she refused. (also not sure if I handled it right, medical areas being maybe different but when she refused I didn't force it as I wanted her to feel in control of her body)

British prudishness!! Oh my God, the world would be such a better and happier place if this issue was simply down to prudishness and not the actual sinister and very real reason!!

How is it countries around the world manage this without triggering paedogeddon?

Why are people saying they wouldn't take their kids there? Unless you are a naturist you wouldn't take your family anyway. Naturists are natural. Also women can be paedophiles too so quit with the whole male thing.

In Finland people sauna naked, and that includes children in public saunas. Is the whole country of Finland a "safeguarding issue?'

Yes in sex segregated saunas, or with family members. Children definitely don't go to sauna with unrelated adults of opposite sex, mixed sex is usually immediate family only. When I was a child, I went to women's sauna at the swimming pool, or at home with my mum and sister. As an adult I wear a towel and so do others if everyone goes to sauna at the same time e.g. at a summer house.

“How is it countries around the world manage this without triggering paedogeddon?”
I think you’ll find its the paedophiles that trigger “paedogeddon” which this country is very aware of.

@sinkgirl I said I was out of the discussion but I had a quick read through and I'd like to say that I thought that the comments you got from @claireluna5 were really patronising and off. I thought your posts were to the point, informed, sensible, world aware.... I just wanted to take the time to say i pretty much agree.

I know of one child who spoke up pretty quickly at the age of 4 because of being taught the pants rule which is fantastic, so to that extent the negative experiences of the previous generation which let to the pants rules being developed in the first place was not an overreaction or intense knee jerk reaction to triggering.

@naturistchild your posts were really interesting, but i do wonder, actually, whether the naturist environment has changed over the years. What do you think about the fact that naturists have been exposed more recently, is it possible that the naturism you were exposed to is not the same as what is going on today? Or that you were lucky with your particular community? Also, can I just ask why you decided not to do it with your kids? Not that you should just because it was your childhood, but presumably it is something you have thought about? And my feeling, reading this, is that even if young children are allowed to attend these events in the UK, the dc should be required to have swimsuits on, even if the adults do not - what do you think?

I’ve just name changed for this and was debating whether to post, but seeing as there have been stories shared by naturists who are positive about it, I wanted to just put it out there what my experience was.

I was a naturist as a child, my dad took me and my sister from when I was 7 up until about 13. These things sound so far fetched but are sadly what happened to us.

• There was a swim session where I overheard two men discussing a teen girl. “She’s only 14? Well she doesn’t have the body of a 14 year old that’s for sure”.

• One time I didn’t want to be naked so kept my costume on, I felt very pressured to take it off by some older men who said I couldn’t come into the sauna with it on. The whole atmosphere was off on that night, I remember feeling so self conscious.

I will be honest and say these were the only incidents at the clubs where things were a bit sinister.

One weekend at my dads (parents divorced) he showed me and my sister a video about naturism and it was more like porn - to this day I don’t know where it came from but there was a sex scene. I don’t know if it was acting.

My dad made friends at the various clubs we attended. One night when me and my sister were staying with him he invited a few of them round. They all had a few drinks and said video was put on, then I don’t know how it came to this but they all took their clothes off. One of the men later abused my sister in her room We didn’t find out until later down the line.

Another ‘friend’ of my dads from the clubs used to come and stay with his wife on some weekends, and he used to ask me inappropriate questions like what are my sexual thoughts that I have. He died a few months later and his 5 year old daughter confided to her mum that he’d been touching her for months before his death. I guess she finally felt able to tell someone once he was no longer around.

Another ‘friend’ who was always around used to stare at and make comments about very young girls when we were out, and he also used to say things to me that were a bit off.

Then unfortunately my dad was arrested for having sexual images of children and went to prison. As part of his sentencing he was banned for life from naturist activities.

My mum used to hate us going to these clubs, she actually took my dad to court to try to stop him but it was ruled that ilthere was no reason he couldn’t take us there as long as we both wanted to go. And we did - at the time. Because we weren’t able to make an informed decision. Now three decades later I am disgusted that we were exposed to such horrific situations. I feel violated. I wanted to say all this not because I think these things are going to happen to every child who goes to naturist clubs, but because your children might say they love it - they might ACTUALLY love it now, but when they grow up they might be hurt, embarrassed and regretful about doing something that they wouldn’t choose for their own children.

In my heart I believe that children’s nudity is private and to be protected. It’s their modesty, their sacred space. For their parents to look after them and for medical staff who need to treat them. No one else.

And believe me, it is not nice seeing genitals of strangers everywhere you look, it’s awkward and tedious. I do realise that all of this is just my experience and I fully expect that others will have different opinions about this, but it’s close to my heart so I had to share.

Hotwaterbottleweather just feel so utterly sad about what you experienced and have so much respect for you speaking about it.
We STILL seem to live in a culture where people want to defend inappropriate situations for fear of going against the majority and what is “normal”. They deem others as being paranoid and hysterical when the bitter reality is, paedophiles hide in plain sight - confident in the fact that people wont speak up due to being judged themselves. On this thread alone I am baffled to see people standing up for naturists’ as if they are all somehow immune from inappropriateness towards children. As another poster said - children should have the upmost protection and respect when it comes to their own bodies.

Hotwaterbottleweather. so sorry for your experience. its exactly what I an others on this thread can see coming a million miles away sadly. I reckon your experience is fairly common but childrens sense of comfortable v not is so skewed some either think its fine, or are terrified of saying "I don't like this anymore" because they don't want to disappoint their parents. So very sad.

Some people are so desperate to appear cool and current that concern for children's welfare is now coming second to that, and it's not just these events/naturism where the child has no real choice (but that's another thread!)

I still notice how no one has been willing to answer why, if these events are so benign and as normal as swimming with a costume, why pre registration and id is needed and 'strict safeguards' are in place such as wandering safeguarding officer. Funny that.

Are you suggesting that small children should be charged entry, Mrs Mainwaring? I'm sure that the Captain would think that a capital idea!

I can tell you why strict safeguards are in place, it is to make the events safe and to answer criticisms from ignorant bigots who shout at things of which they have no experience! In 40 years of taking my kids & grandkids to ASA registered swimming clubs (which also require id etc), and to naturist swims, I have only ever heard of child abuse at the ASA swimming clubs - never at a naturist swim. And part of the reason is that at naturist swims the parent are with the children all the time.
Before you shout again, I suggest you try it for yourself rather than speaking from ignorance.

Calm down Ordinarydad, no one's shouting :)

Why do these events need to be safer than normal swimming? I don't need to register and give id to go swimming normally, so if these events are as safe, why the need for these enhanced elements? What is the enhanced risk present at these events that isn't present at others?

Of course there are weirdos who try to use camouflage as 'genuine naturists', just as there are those who are youth leaders, church organisers, sports club helpers...etc. But they are very few, and very tightly controlled by the rigorous Child Protection policies naturist swims & clubs have developed with guidance form the police, NSPCC etc. Can you actually cite any cases of child abuse at naturist events? No, neither can I, and I have been attending them with my family for over 40 years, whereas I know of many cases of child abuse in churches, sports clubs and youth organisations.
It is paedophiles you should be pursuing, not innocent naturists, and least of all children in trying to have them banned from things they enjoy with their parents.

As you say, public swim sessions are a lot more at risk from paedophiles than naturist ones, because they have no controls. So why aren't you and your friends picketing them? And why not ban children from joining ASA swimming clubs, and scouts, where there have been many cases of child abuse!
At naturist swims and clubs there are robust security measure (including, but not limited to child protection). These have been developed over many years in conjunction with many agencies, including the police and NSPCC. This has been done for two reasons. Firstly it is to provide a safe environment for all to enjoy the experience. Secondly it has been done to satisfy critics like yourself, who see, or imagine, bogeymen around everywhere, because they (wrongly) can not believe that nakedness does not imply sexual intent.
You should try it and see for yourself before firing off allegations based on prudery and paranoia.

Thank you for answering my question, it's as I thought.

I genuinely have no problem with naturists. And you're missing the point slightly with asking for citation of abuse at naturist event because the general concern is the boundaries of what's comfortable v not start to be eroded at these things, not necessarily that they happen at the events. Although the pre-register and Id and additional safeguarding officers wandering around actually tell me there have either been suspicious incidents, or they are anticipated and acknowledging that there is indeed a greater risk.

Don't fret, no one's gunning for adult naturists! More questioning why small children need to be dragged along. I'm quite sure even if children were banned from these things, life will still go on for naturists, after all, no one NEEDS naked children at these things, so there will be no adverse affects whatsoever if a ban was to come in to place. Can you imagine? Hearing an adult moaning that there fun has been ruined because they can't see naked children at a naturist event any more?! Pretty sure the police would be interested in such a person!

I am truly sorry to hear that you are the victim of child abuse, and I can understand that it will have coloured your views of life ever since. That was because your dad was obviously a weirdo sex maniac who used naturism as camouflage for his perversion . Most parents are not weirdos, and it is very possible and common for people to enjoy social nudity without any sexual intent - that is what genuine naturism is about. It is wrong to ban people from that innocent pleasure and way of life just because one person has abused it. It's rather like saying that no one should be allowed to drive, just because there are a few road hogs around. It is the few dangerous ones who need to be controlled, not the many innocent safe ones.

"As you say, public swim sessions are a lot more at risk from paedophiles than naturist ones, because they have no controls. So why aren't you and your friends picketing them? And why not ban children from joining ASA swimming clubs, and scouts, where there have been many cases of child abuse! "

I never said such thing. But fwiw I am in contact with a number of my local pools regarding changes they have implemented that are a safeguarding issue :)

And I would critcise these other clubs if they are naked at them. Are they?

So it is actually the nudity, not child protection issues which you are complaining about. I thought so.
Many adults would actually prefer to have n o children around, but similarly many families like to have their leisure time together - it's an aspect of good parenting to share activities. You would ban families from something they enjoy. And for what? So that the children can be turned into prudes who are ashamed of their own bodies - that's what your 'erosion of boundaries' means. No one in their right mind wants to sexualise children, but you (and many others) seem to assume that nudity (ie our own bodies in their natural state) always imply sex. Genuine naturists don't have that hang up. My advice to you is to try going to a naturist swim yourself and see what happens, before condemning others from a position of no experience.

So now you are being a vigilante at ordinary swimming clubs! I think you need to see someone about that. But first why don't you contact British Swimming (formerly the ASA) and get a copy of their child protection policy & procedures. I think you'll find they are pretty rigorous, so you will be wasting your time.
If you want to be a genuine paedophile hunter start where it happens most - look at stepdads, mum's latest, boyfriends, the kind uncle, the nursery nurse who loves to cuddle kids (yes there are female paedophiles too), the babysitter. Child abuse is rarely carried out by strangers.

It would be lovely if we could all agree that there are some things in life we wouldn't choose ourselves but acknowledge that others do and that's for them. And it's ok too because I realise that's optimistic!

I'm comfortable with the fact that some people don't understand naturism.

I feel I wanted to address a couple of recurring ideas...

Some of the arguments against naturism have, I believe, wider ramifications. The persistency of the thought that children are 'dragged' along without choice. If we are using that to talk about naturism we surely need to apply that across the whole of a child's life - dragging them to nursery when they are screaming they don't want to go, dragging them to the supermarket, putting them in clothes when they don't want to be etc etc. And if those situations are different - why?

This links to the argument about consent (interestingly a word more often used to refer to the age of consent for sex, perhaps still showing the link between thinking about nudity and immediately adding a sexual connotation). Are we putting an age on consent for naturism? If so, what age? And what other things do we think a child should consent to in life?

Are we therefore assuming that once a child has consented to something, they are safer from harm because they gave express agreement?

Are we also assuming that when we reach a certain age we are less at risk from harm?

These are big topics...

Yes, naturism has checks etc in place, because the organisation and clubs etc have a duty of care to people attending. The same as schools do with DBS checks etc. Are they saying there is a greater risk to children at school than at home because of the checks in place? I'm pretty sure most schools are pretty safe places to be but they'd like to show that they have thought about the children in their care and are trying their best to protect them (albeit from people who have offended and been caught).

I've said it earlier, but I would like to say it again - my heart goes out to anyone who has been abused, in anyone's care, in any situation. It is unimaginable and heartbreaking. And I completely understand the trigger regarding naked adults/children.

Sadly there are people who will attempt to exploit any situation to do people harm. And as a society we can continue to try and understand that and protect people as best as we can, whilst allowing groups (churches, school, scouts, guides, naturists) to continue.

You say that 'known paedophiles have attended these events'. What evidence have you of that? If you do have evidence (and not just speculation) you should take it to the police and have it dealt with properly. The event organisers would be grateful to you, as they don't want paedophiles there. If you don't give the police the evidence you have, you are actually complicit in helping the paedophiles maintain their cover. Do something useful rather than just talking about it on the internet!