AIBU or is this a MAJOR safeguarding issue?

[Whatthefudgeisthis]

NC for this,

I’ve been absolutely stunned at the ignorance shown by the organisers with this one! A naturist night at the water park 😱 this place is designed for kids entertainment, it’s basically loads of water slides a wave pool and play area etc
Who in their right mind would take a child to such an event. Obviously I’m not shooting down naturists, each to their own, but this is an event that ANYONE can attend. Known paedophiles have attended these events, with one saying that he can’t even swim. What the actual fuck is going on? Who thought this one up?
If adults want to swim naked that’s their call, but why open the event to children too?

I’m pretty sure I’m not the one missing the blindingly obvious here, but I’m so amazed at the stupidity I had to share and maybe raise some awareness.

www.stokesentinel.co.uk/whats-on/family-nude-swimming-session-coming-2589946

These events are being held across the country, so there’s possibly one near you.

Sinkgirl

I agree some of the comments are very strange

It seems that some don’t understand that safeguarding is about minimising risks, not just saying oh well it could happen anywhere/ by anyone, and sticking their fingers in their ears.
there are clear risks to an event like this, it is common sense.

I don't consume porn, but in the past I have stumbled upon footage from "nudist resorts"
So even if nudism itself is innocent, its a playground for all sorts of creeps, and you may even end up on a porn site.

But surely it's harder for an aroused male to hide his motives naked, wouldn't they be worried about that? The men wouldn't necessarily get hard ons.

@claireluna if your children want to put on clothes, I would take from that there is an element of them not being comfortable at these events. I am very open minded, a bit of an old hippy, love naked, very non-judgemental about adult choices. My concern is not so much a risk of abuse there and then as, as you say, you are supervising and people are vigilant, more that if there are paedophiles there, and chances are there will be, this will be feeding into wider abuses. And children are going to be affected by their experiences and you don't know that it will be positive. Why is your child not feeling comfortable with their nakedness? Is it fair for you to be imposing your life choices on them? Why can't you keep this a you and your husband activity?

I would hazard a guess that the people showing concern here (not "banning" anything, not yet anyway) have been sexually abused or have been affected by it, and that anyone who has been sexually abused will be reading about the swims feeling slightly sickened, and I think that if I am right there, then that fact speaks volumes. And that that would be a lot of people as we know that a high percentage of people are at a conservative estimate thought to have been abused.

"Considering more than access, what about going to observe children? I know one poster said no photographs- but how is this monitored when cameras are easily accessible on phones, iPads etc?
Not all child sexual offences include contact"

At the water park no bags/phones/cameras are allowed into poolside - most anyone brings is a towel!

At any event cameras are a big no. To be honest as most folks are older, and because we are a community and we are busy socialising its not often anyone will be using a mobile/ipad etc. And again, safeguarding officers, other naturists would pick up anything untoward.

Scary as it sounds, we are not in control of anyone's thoughts - anyone could think about a child in a certain way at any time, sadly, and we would never know...

“Scary as it sounds, we are not in control of anyone's thoughts - anyone could think about a child in a certain way at any time, sadly, and we would never know...“

Absolutely but I think the there’s more chance a naked child would attract the attention of paedophiles.
I have worked in a child protection environment for a long time. Seen enough to know that this is not a good idea in my opinion.

@meandmetoo it's thread where the OP is concerned about the risk to children from child abuse at a naturist event. comparing it to other avenues of abuse is entirely appropriate.

@itwasn'tpreeclampsyia - I never said my children didn't want to attend the events - they always do want to! I was making the point about choice around clothing - always their choice and never forced - more often than not they don't wear clothes, but sometimes, like I said, my daughter were biking bottoms - but not necessarily for the whole night.

I totally understand re abuse survivors - it must be a hugely triggering thought, and a difficult concept to wrap a head around. For that, my heart goes out to anyone who is an abuse survivor - I'm a grooming survivor myself.

It is very hard to describe a community and how things work when someone hasn't experienced it themselves!

Not when the risk being discussed is about the specific risk of nude strange adults around children and the immediate, and longer term physical and psychological affects and impacts of that.

So no, not appropriate at all. Deflection? Certainly.

@missymoo "Absolutely but I think the there’s more chance a naked child would attract the attention of paedophiles"

I totally understand where you are coming from - but the norm isn't to associate a naked body with sexuality. And to say that children have to cover up in case someone sees them a certain way is a bit of a murky road to head down. Similar to saying that how. woman dresses affects her chance of being raped.

Again, you are assuming a paedophile would be comfortable naked themselves, in a community they don't understand, and would not be spotted acting strangely by safeguarding officers.

Sadly, paedophiles infiltrate all sorts of areas of people's lives.

We also have to surely keep trying not to make the assumption that a paedophile is mobster lurking in dark corners waiting to pounce on children. I think it is slightly more complicated than that...

I didn't say that your children said they didn't want to go. I said that them choosing to wear clothes may indicate that they are not comfortable, even if they are not saying it. How many children would say "mummy i know you love it and you love socialising there and you have told me my whole life it is normal but i am not comfortable" ?

It isn't so much that it is triggering, more that people who have experience might see the dangers.

Why can't you keep this a you and your husband activity? "

Are you saying my children would be safer at home with a babysitter?

"I said that them choosing to wear clothes may indicate that they are not comfortable, even if they are not saying it. How many children would say "mummy i know you love it and you love socialising there and you have told me my whole life it is normal but i am not comfortable" ? "

Ive already answered the above question about choice around clothing - if they are comfortable to say that want to start off wearing bikini bottoms, I think they'd keep them on if they wanted to. Like I said, they more often than not don't wear them at all. It's ALWAYS their choice.

My daughters are 12 and 10 and we talk openly - like we do about all sorts of things. we have the kind of relationship where if they told me they weren't comfortable, we'd figure it out together.

but the norm isn't to associate a naked body with sexuality.

But often nudity IS often correlated with sexuality. People get sexual gratification from seeing other people, they are attracted to nude. If a person is attracted to children they will get gratification from seeing nude children.

I’m not saying that children shouldn’t ever be naked- but running around without a nappy on the beach is very different to an advertised event- where both children and adults will be nude, all invited.

Claire, if it's very 'community everyone looking out for each other outsiders don't understand us' why is this event open to non members where single adult tickets can be bought?

I don't think lack of clothing imparts any special wisdom for spotting those who are going along for dodgy purposes tbh.

@missymoo

yes, nudity often is correlated to sexuality but not by naturists...

Ive already said lots about the safeguarding in place etc etc.

I think we will just have to agree that we differ in the way we think and do things - and thats ok :)

not by naturists...

How do you know other people’s intent though or sexual inclinations?
I’m not saying that all people have bad intentions- but when this sort of event is advertised in this way, it wouldn’t be too much of a surprise if people with a sexual interest in children turned up.
Also what about the case where the parent is an abuser and might take their child to these sorts of events... and how do you know the child is okay with this being nude?

@meandmetoo

The naked roller coaster ride was before the swim, so people were invited to come along. Our community always welcomes new members, single or otherwise, and we don't pre-judge. Anyone buying a ticket had to pre-register.

Because we are a community we welcome new members,

I'm sure British Naturism will be reviewing the whole thing. No community or society is perfect, and there are always ways improvements can be made :)

@missymoo

Sadly I don't think we ever know anyone else's thoughts or intentions, even those closest to us.

And I wouldn't be able to say about other people and how they are with their children

Very sadly parents do abuse their children. It is an extremely sad thought.

The swim hasn't happened yet, it's in April.

How effective is pre registering at weeding out undesirables do you think? Why the need to pre-register or bring id if there's no increased risk? I don't have to pre-register or provide id to go swimming normally.

Again, you are assuming a paedophile would be comfortable naked themselves, in a community they don't understand, and would not be spotted acting strangely by safeguarding officers.

You are assuming that your community doesn’t already contain paedophiles who fully understand the community because they’re a longterm part of it.

I guarantee you that it does - every community includes child abusers, disproportionately so where adults get access to children, and I’m sure one where adults get access to naked children.

You’re also assuming that you’d be able to spot them acting strangely - very unlikely, many paedophiles evade detection throughout their lives, even their own spouses don’t know.

A PP is right - as a victim myself I do find that this topic makes me extremely anxious. I find it difficult to believe every child who’s grown up attending events like this with parents would find it easy to say they’re uncomfortable with it (or that they’re far too used to it to be uncomfortable and that has knock on effects later in life).

Yes it is sad and unfortunately more common than we like to think

Ive already answered the above question about choice around clothing - if they are comfortable to say that want to start off wearing bikini bottoms, I think they'd keep them on if they wanted to. Like I said, they more often than not don't wear them at all. It's ALWAYS their choice

The point I am making is that if they ever want to wear clothes, does that not indicate in itself that they are not comfortable? My dc are comfortable in the nude at home, would not necessarily be comfortable nude on a beach (not tried it so don't know), would probably agree to go naked on a beach if i said it was ok, even if they felt uncomfortable, at first, but if they given the choice opted to wear trunks it would indicate to me that they were not actually comfortable. Do you see what I mean now?

As for the babysitter comment, if you are saying that you think i am saying "don't trust anyone ever" then you are wrong.

I'm sure British Naturism will be reviewing the whole thing. No community or society is perfect, and there are always ways improvements can be made

That would be fantastic.

@sinkgirl

I am not assuming the naturist community doesn't have long term paedophiles - it hasn't' been discussed yet! And you're right - there might likely be. Is it higher than any other community or place that a paedophile might infiltrate - I don't think we can answer that.

My children's school had an incident that had to be dealt with. We put our children in the trust of others all the time.

In the naturist community we are a family and we are responsible for our children. In that way, I can be vigilant as I would be anywhere.

And yes, many paedophiles evade detection. It is sad, and scary, but it shouldn't stop us going about our lives.

You may have missed my comment above acknowledging how triggering the topic must be, and I'm sorry that you are a victim and are feeling anxious.

"The point I am making is that if they ever want to wear clothes, does that not indicate in itself that they are not comfortable? My dc are comfortable in the nude at home, would not necessarily be comfortable nude on a beach (not tried it so don't know), would probably agree to go naked on a beach if i said it was ok, even if they felt uncomfortable, at first, but if they given the choice opted to wear trunks it would indicate to me that they were not actually comfortable. Do you see what I mean now?"

Yes, I think I see the point you are trying to make. But, just because she occasionally wore bikini bottoms for a short time doesn't mean she would never be comfortable naked at a naturist event ever again. We can fluctuate between our levels of comfort - we all do that. I do it too. The point is that whatever she feels comfortable doing/not doing is accepted. And the fact that she always says a big yes when we talk about events is indicative that she is comfortable attending and she knows she can make choices when she is there. As I said, if she ever said she didn't fancy it, we would navigate that :)