To think the hospital were wrong not to use this lady's correct title?

[PumpkinPie2016]

A friend of my husband has recently had a short stay in hospital (a few days). This last is well into her 80's now but worked her whole life as a doctor. She was the first female GP in our area and has an MBE and, as you can imagine, she worked incredibly hard for her qualification and during her career. As a result, she of course has the title Dr.

When my husband visited her in hospital, he noticed that her name on the board was down as Mrs X rather than Dr X. My husband pointed out to the nurse that Dr X had never married and so her title wasn't Mrs but Dr (he was very polite about it!). The nurse was adamant she would change it to Miss but not Dr and no matter what DH or the last herself said, the nurse would only change it to Miss. The following day, a different visitor pointed it out to a different staff member but again it was left as Miss.

Over the 4 day stay, the title varied from Mrs to Miss, back to Mrs then Miss and finally Ms. All of this lady's identification, labels from pharmacy medication, medical records etc have her title as Dr.

Now, I know that in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal and there are bigger things to worry about in the world, however, I can't help but think that it's hugely disrespectful to deliberately give someone an incorrect title? I also cannot fathom what the problem was with giving her the correct title?

So, can any hospital staff shed any light? And AIBU to think that they should have used her correct title.

A PhD is bloody hard. If I’ve busted my ass for years on end to get one, you had better believe I’ll be proud and want to use it on my ID. It wouldn’t bother me to just be called by my name with no title, but I wouldn’t be pleased about being given a different title because other people don’t like the fact that I’ve earned the right to be called Dr. Which is ultimately what it comes down to when someone refuses to use your title. It isn’t up to them!

It's nothing to do with women in particular having a PhD that the title isn't used - in my experience. But having a PhD is relatively common in my field of work (a job that doesn't require a PhD) and brings with it no advantage, or skill, or kudos whatsoever, as lots of people have them. People without a PhD can do the job just as well as those who haven't got one. I can see the plus points of a woman not defining herself as Mrs/Miss, and that is an advantage, but I always go by Ms myself.

Interesting

I have the reverse situation in that I am a currently practicing physician known as Dr Maidenname at work and Mrs Marriedname at home

The GP and hospital are determined to call me Dr Marriedname which I have no entitlement to at all as both my PhD and MBChB were awarded to me in my maiden name. I’d need to go through a whole rigmarole with the GMC to get it swapped over and would confuse colleagues and patients if I tried as I’ve been practicing a good while. I checked with the uni about the PhD and it can’t be applied to any name assumed after award either according to them (Cambridge).

Mind you, my SIL insists the title transfers on marriage and is determined that everyone should use her Dr with her Marriedname.

The German system is better imo. To be called Doktor you actually have to have completed a doctoral degree. The word for a medical doctor is Arzt, because there’s no requirement for a medical doctor to hold a doctorate.

Maybe they have a crap IT system with only a limited list of titles to choose from and they don't want to display a title that they can't enter in to the system.

@Fiveredbricks this isn’t about someone with a PhD though.

Maybe it would be confusing in a hospital to call someone "doctor" who is a patient?

Besides, titles aren't legally binding. I don't even a BA degree but I put myself as doctor for everything because I think you get better customer service

Does Dr X care or is it just her visitors getting bent out of shape about it?

I think it's fair to say that this thread has shown that some doctors prefer not to use it out of work and esp in hospital while for others there's a belief it might get them better treatment while for others again it's a very big part of their identity.

The ones in my family - the male ones anyway - are of the latter type. My mum seems less fussed but I suspect that's after years of being un-doctored all over the place she couldn't be bothered to get in a fuss about it.

I would hope that in a situation where an elderly person is in hosp they will be addressed according to preference (if they have one) as it's such a small thing.

I'm surprised that loads of people think it's neither here nor there wha elderly people are called in hosp
And more surprised at those saying that it smacks of these patients thinking they're special / and they should be taken down a peg or 2 and so on

I really must ask my dad what they called him in hosp when he got his hip done, he always is dr for everything ie all the post comes to that etc and has done since he qualified presumably, it's even in his email!

I think it's fair to say that this thread has shown that some doctors prefer not to use it out of work and esp in hospital while for others there's a belief it might get them better treatment while for others again it's a very big part of their identity.

It's often because you just don't want them to explain everything in "laymans" terms. I got pretty sick of that when pregnant so changed everything to "dr"

Does Dr X care or is it just her visitors getting bent out of shape about it?

Radical idea, but try reading the whole thread.

Dungeon yes that's a consideration as well.

Different people who are doctors have different ideas.

I find it surprising that so many seem to be almost saying no this old lady should not be called Dr and especially if its important to her which feels quite nasty to my mind. Especially for an elderly woman who's likely to have been undoctored as it were by all and sundry all her life.

I always thought these things were working titles? I could be completely wrong.. I thought when people retired from certain roles they no longer needed the title Dr or Rev.

I wouldn’t be contacting PALS though. The hospital staff have a million and one things to deal with and this is quite minor on the grand scheme of things.

You can't force people to call someone Dr. can you?

If someone told me to call them a doctor in a non-work or non-medical situation I would give them a face.

@S1naidSucks

Does Dr X care or is it just her visitors getting bent out of shape about it?

Radical idea, but try reading the whole thread.

It's not actually covered in the thread. OP does say her husband's friend goes by the title 'Dr' but not whether she cares on this occasion (she may be too sick to care). So @Alsohuman 's question is perfectly valid.

It is actually.
Op states that the hcp said no.matter what her dh nor the woman herself said the hcp wouldn't call her Dr.

Op also said that the woman in question has always been known by her title so what was the problem using it? It wasnt affecting anyone else at all.

I know retired gps who were always known in our community as Dr X long after they retired. It was just how they were known and out of respect for the years they were local gps.

Its common courtesy to call someone by their preferred name, its basic care and should be one of the first things asked of a patient.

And if the nurses could put 'Mrs' which was wrong any way or 'Miss' on her board (in a single room where nobody else would see it anyway) then they could just as easily put 'Dr'.

If all her notes and medications were labled 'Dr' it should have caused problems when dispensing meds as the names did not match.

But perhaps her being 'just' an 80yr old woman why worry about treating her like an individual with a lifetime of experiences?

They are still entitled to use Dr , its a professional qualification

You can't force people to call someone Dr. can you?

You also can’t force people to call someone Doris. But if that’s your legal name then they should use it. If the lady’s name is Dr Doris Doolittle then it would be weird to call her Miss instead of Dr, or Joyce instead of Doris. Why would you refuse to call someone by their name and instead call them whatever random name you felt like?

Very unusal. Have always referred to patients however thy wish to be known and is common ice. They even make a point of saying this in mandatory training x

@Willow2017 but we don't know that the husband's friend has actually said anything.

@Velvet but Dr. is not her name, in the same way as Ms/Mrs isn't mine. A title is not a name.

I fundamentally disagree with the whole concept of titles, especially the differences in titles for men and women. I will always say please call me by my first name. But if someone absolutely insists in this sort of situation then my title is Dr (PhD). It's not naff, I worked a lot of years for it. I'm not introducing myself to people in the supermarket checkout as Dr Boots! In this situation I would've crossed out the title and written my first name on the white board to make a point. But if I wanted to be Dr Boots and not Miss/Ms/Mrs/Mx Boots then I don't see what the problem is? Dr is my title.

Sorry only just got back to this thread.

I know a couple of people have asked whether Dr X cares and in answer to the question, yes she does. She pointed it out herself (politely).

I think it upsets her because her work has always been such a huge part of her life. In addition, when she first said she wanted to be a doctor (as a young girl) she faced a lot of people saying she wouldn't be able to etc.

It's interesting reading all of the responses though

If anyone in a hospital situation woshes the patient to address them with a title then they absolutely should refer to patients and other stakeholders with their title.

Of course they should refer to this lady as Dr x. She is neither Ms nor Mrs x. Neither is she first name unless she invites it to be used. and I am not mum to any nurse or dr; neither of my dc chose healthcare and only they are entitled to call me mum

It's simply ignorance and bad manners.

I work in information governance at an NHS hospital. I would take an extremely dim view of this. It is paramount that staff pay attention to patients wishes, use their correct names (including known as names), look after their religious and cultural needs and so on.

Ffs the staff have more important things to worry about

This is an attitude I come up against regularly and really pisses me off. Clinical staff saying they don't care about admin as long as patients are treated. Well yes, that's admirable and all, but one of the biggest reasons the NHS loses money is POOR ADMIN. When records aren't kept correctly the NHS can't claim what they are owed, it's like losing an IOU.

Not to mention, poor record keeping can actually cause serious clinical errors - patient address not updated, or a typo means the house number is wrong. Patient doesn't get letter. Patient misses appointment. No one checks for a reason why they didn't attend, but send a second letter. Patient doesn't get second letter. Patient DNAs again. Hospital has a policy to discharge after 2 DNAs. When patient gets rereferred they find out the suspected cancer they had is now stage 4 and untreatable.

This has actually happened more than once and has been in the national press. All because of a wrong address.

Also calling her Dr breaks confidentiality.

Absolute bollocks. Does it break confidentiality to call your children's teachers Miss/Mrs/Mr X?

If it's electronic perhaps it's a crappy IT system that doesn't have Dr as one of the available options.

Maybe they have a crap IT system with only a limited list of titles to choose from and they don't want to display a title that they can't enter in to the system.

Ha! I where I work we have a 20 year old system, which is commonly used by many NHS Hospitals. Not only does it come preprogrammed with around 15 titles (including Rev, Sir, Lord, Lady, Dame etc), there is also the option to type in your own. In fact, it's a problem sometimes clearing up the amounts of misspellings - Maester obviously from GoT fans, Missus, Mz etc. And IT can always add them. I succeeded in getting Mx added to ours last year.

No, this is laziness and assumptions, pure and simple. Anyone has the right to go by any name or title they want to (morality of this aside), and its important that ALL hospital staff respect that.