To think the hospital were wrong not to use this lady's correct title?

[PumpkinPie2016]

A friend of my husband has recently had a short stay in hospital (a few days). This last is well into her 80's now but worked her whole life as a doctor. She was the first female GP in our area and has an MBE and, as you can imagine, she worked incredibly hard for her qualification and during her career. As a result, she of course has the title Dr.

When my husband visited her in hospital, he noticed that her name on the board was down as Mrs X rather than Dr X. My husband pointed out to the nurse that Dr X had never married and so her title wasn't Mrs but Dr (he was very polite about it!). The nurse was adamant she would change it to Miss but not Dr and no matter what DH or the last herself said, the nurse would only change it to Miss. The following day, a different visitor pointed it out to a different staff member but again it was left as Miss.

Over the 4 day stay, the title varied from Mrs to Miss, back to Mrs then Miss and finally Ms. All of this lady's identification, labels from pharmacy medication, medical records etc have her title as Dr.

Now, I know that in the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal and there are bigger things to worry about in the world, however, I can't help but think that it's hugely disrespectful to deliberately give someone an incorrect title? I also cannot fathom what the problem was with giving her the correct title?

So, can any hospital staff shed any light? And AIBU to think that they should have used her correct title.

‘Dr’ is only a courtesy title that we use to practise. We do not have PhDs.
When I retire I will no longer call myself ‘Dr’.
The hospital are entirely correct.

No, they're not. They should call a patient by the title she requests. FFS.

Medical professionals please correct me if I'm wrong......but I always understood that high ranking doctors were addressed as Mr or Miss/Mrs? Whenever I've seen consultants they've alway used this title instead of using Dr.

Consultants are Dr if they're medical doctors.

If they're surgeons then they're Mr/Mrs/Miss.

It's a convention from the distant past that is still used today.

My consultant isn't a surgeon, she goes by Miss.
My surgeon goes by Mr.
The doctor who I also see at the hospital is Dr.

Another Ph.D. here, 95% of the time I go by 'firstname', even with my students. Anytime at all I have to use 'surname' it is either Prof. or Dr. Surname depending on if it's a work or non-work usage.

I'm a nurse, never worked anywhere where titles like Miss/Mrs/Dr are written down for patients. Just first and last name, and ask what they like to be called.

This ^ except I'm not a nurse! I have never seen anything other than the patients first and last names on the board.

Over the 4 day stay, the title varied from Mrs to Miss, back to Mrs then Miss and finally Ms. All of this lady's identification, labels from pharmacy medication, medical records etc have her title as Dr

So everything said Dr but over the course of 4 days they repeatedly changed the board? How absolutely bizarre.

Not RTWT but just thinking about people saying it could stop confusion between her HCP and her, surely "Dr Jane Smith" as her name and "Dr Jones" as her HCP would remove that confusion? HCPs are rarely referred to by their full name on the boards, so by adding the patients first name would differentiate between the two?

Although I agree that I have never seen a title used, its always been just first name last name.

And if I had got my pHD then damn right would be Dr to absolutely everyone I ever met! I prefer to be known by my first name, but I would make my parents and my kids call me Dr if I had managed it :o

I worked in care management for years and the first thing when assessing new people was amongst others "What do we call you? What's your preferred form of address?"

If they have something specific they prefer that's what they get.

Doesn't or shouldn't matter or make any odds if it's unusual title (i.e. Dr / Reverend / Lord et) if it's how someone prefers then that's how it should be.

If you are addressed in a way you don't like / have a preference but still keep having people use the wrong one even after being told it's downright rude and unacceptable.

One of my son's old teachers at primary constantly referred to me as "Mum" which drove me insane. Told her a few times to call me "Parly" rather than "Mum" or "Mrs" and once when she used it again during one meeting at school I replied "thanks teach"

Who cares if you’re a Dr? You chose to go to medical school but not everyone knows her as that. I really don’t understand why people put Drs up on pedestals. It’s not that big of a deal

If you have a PhD and are working, say, in a university where you're lecturing, etc, then, fine, you're Dr xxx. But if you're working in a job that's not directly related to your PhD studies (surely the majority), then, yes, no-one I know would use their title, and it would be cringe-worthy to do so, as well. Most of the people I know who have PhDs have them in humanities subjects - English, history, etc - (I've got one myself) - but would never use it as a title. If you, say, work in the media, or become a nurse or midwife, (things that people I know with PhDs do) then it's irrelevant.

daisypond just out of curiosity, why is it cringe worthy to use a title that's earned? I work in a secondary school in a position that is loosely related to my PhD, but I never even considered not using my title.
Most of my colleagues that left the programme also use their titles, as well as friends I made living overseas.
My choice is always to be referred to by my first name, but in situations where a title is requested, why shouldn't I use the correct one? It doesn't seem that different than changing from Miss to Mrs when married.

Its not putying her on a pedestal ffs.
Its usung the way someone prefers to be addressed by which is the first thing you ask a patient when they are admitted.

In any other work situation not using a person's correct name would be disrespectful why is it different in hospital?

At work if a major client was called Dr Andrew Smith and wad always referred to as that and you waltzed in to a meetung and said 'Morning Andy' you would get your arse handed on a plate. This person deserves the same respect. Who wad tbe hc perdon to tell her otherwise?

YANBU. They should have been respectful and used her correct title.

What would the staff do if a doctor they knew (not a Consultant who would be a Mr anyway) came into the hospital for surgery. Would they call him Mr or doctor?

I think it’s rather odd tbh. Yes once no longer practicing we should no longer use the term Dr but in reality most do. I have called many patients “Dr” knowing full well that they are retired but hell they earnt it and it’s a sign of respect.

As an aside, I thoroughly hate this trend of calling patients by their first names straight away. I introduce myself as Miss Moreis and call them by by their title and surname until they ask otherwise. There are only a handful of long term patients who know my first name.

Parly I agree.

The idea that someone would refuse to call an old lady by her preferred form of address, when she's ill, because it 'puts her on a pedestal' is one which I think just seems off.

Older female doctors will have had a lifetime of not being called Dr a fair bit and so it may be particularly sensitive.

To suggest that they think they're special or something is just weird.

FYI for all the docs who don't use it for doc appts etc, the other view is that if they know you are in the trade then you can be treated a bit more carefully. I suppose theres no way to know and probably it varies. I would hope that everyone gets the same treatment but we all know there is massive variation based on a number of factors.

Just to clarify, was this an electronic board or a written one? If it's electronic perhaps it's a crappy IT system that doesn't have Dr as one of the available options.

Only valid reason I can think of to refuse the request.

why is it cringe worthy to use a title that's earned?

One of the things I like about Dr as a title is that it's gender-neutral and reveals nothing about my marital status. I really object to the way women's titles include marriage status but men's titles do not so to me this is important. My PhD is in a humanities subject and whether or not it's directly related to the area I'm working in, I find the experience in research that it gave me crucial much of the time.

If anyone wants to cringe at this I regard it as their problem, not mine. I think much of the reason we have a problem with this in the UK is related to the poor regard in which we hold education and expertise. We just don't value education enough and mocking expertise is a dangerous game - it allows for the kind of hold the right wing press now have, because counteracting propaganda then somehow becomes something elitist, instead of something valuable.

If you're educated, be proud of it. Be proud of your knowledge and ability and what you've worked for. With what I suspect is coming our way, we'll need these things.

They normally just write your first name, surname, and any different name you like to be called on the door of your room or and just first name surname on the whiteboard list for the ward. Have never seen titles written on there.

why people put Drs up on pedestals. It’s not that big of a deal

Oh. That’s great to know that you’ll never need to see a doctor or receive medical treatment. Well done for never having had to need any medical help. How on earth do you manage it, or do you just ask the local shop keeper for advice?

One of the things I like about Dr as a title is that it's gender-neutral and reveals nothing about my marital status. I really object to the way women's titles include marriage status but men's titles do not so to me this is important.

I completely agree with this, and also with your comment that if people find it cringe worthy, that says more about them than it does me.

Fwiw, and I know I don't need to explain, but I am the least pretentious person I know. I am however, really proud to have completed a PhD, in my 40's, with young kids to wrangle, and an overseas move smack in the middle of my research. So, cringe all you like, but best call me Dr while you're doing it!

Ok...I've completely derailed the thread...apologies!! As you were...

This always surprises me, not sure why because I can see how it happens - the general public have much more contact with HCPs than academics I guess.

Several folk upthread have explained correctly. It's the medics that use the term as a 'courtesy'. That's why consultants are so often Mr/Ms. They're not doctoring any more.

The confusion is simply because, centuries later, the same word is used for two completely different things.

The 'real' title (permanent, that IS your title) of Dr describes someone with a PhD - they ARE a Doctor of Philosophy, though it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with philosophy or treating illnesses. They can choose not to use the title just as a married woman might still choose Ms but it has nothing to do with their occupation - they just are a Dr.

Medical professionals generally only hold a bachelor's degree and are known as Dr when that's their job, though as stated, they can carry on using it when they retire.

I guess if it were also common for people to be known as 'Plumber Jones' or 'Solicitor Anderson' we would have a lot less confusion over this

Some of it isn't confusion, though - I do love the way the shoulder chips pop out on a thread mentioning people (especially women ) with PhDs until it's like being at a Joan Collins dress-a-like party

Yes it's always 'cringe-worthy' that academics refer to themselves as Dr. apparently .They're not real doctors, don'tcha know!

Um - afraid they are!

The GMC allows the use of the title Dr even if a medically qualified doctor relinquishes their registration with the GMC i.e not practising medicine. This is from the GMC website:

Can I still use the title ‘Dr’ after I give up my registration or licence to practise?
Yes. There is no reason why you should not. This is a result of your medical qualification. But it is against the law to present yourself as registered, with or without a licence.

DH's DGM, age 90, is still Dr and woe betide anyone who gets it wrong

This would make me refrain from addressing her as Dr all the more