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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Boys left behind at school while girls get trip

514 replies

Quickchat1 · 05/03/2019 23:42

Recently my sons class went on an educational trip to a local university. But only the girls. The boys were left behind with a cover teacher listening to music and generally doing very little. My son is GCSE year and would have benefited from a computing and science event. No it was only for the girls with no mention of anything for the boys. I understand this was a STEM event for girls only but if there was a STEM event for boys only there would be uproar! AIBU?

OP posts:
CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 11:24

The majority of teenagers I have worked with know what STEM means. I don't think you need to worry about that.

StormTreader · 06/03/2019 11:25

@Ftryoh Solidarity software engineer fistbump :)

@CostanzaG they want someone else to go to the link you've posted, copy the list, and paste it in front of their eyes I think. About 1/10 of the user support calls I deal with are a similar "I have the ability to do this but I want you to do it for me" situation.

lottiegarbanzo · 06/03/2019 11:26

Ok bookmum08 but do you or your teens understand what the words 'science, technology, engineering and mathematics' mean? I would think that you do, as secondary-age children will have been having maths lessons for years, science lessons too and will be avid users or technology. They might be less familiar with engineering but will know that there are people who design bridges, aeroplanes, wind turbines and mobile phones.

The obvious problem with asking for job titles is we'd be here all day, as there are thousands of them.

Here are five jobs that STEM study might lead into, off the top of my head:

pharmacist
accountant
computer programmer
ecologist
laboratory technician

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 11:29

Sorry I ended up posting twice because I didn't think my post went through.
Yes teens know what S. T. E. M. stands for they just don't know what it means.

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 11:32

My school recently held a celebration assembly for our female Year 11s who have been doing very well this year. It was an assembly especially for them, and the idea was to give these girls specific recognition for their hard work, and to award them for this. Overall, the girls are out-performing the boys (as is the trend every year) by a long way in terms of both effort levels and achievement.

I couldn't help but think, as I looked around the room, how sad it was, though, that this may be the only time in their entire lives that these young women would be achieving over their male counterparts. I'm sure that as they move into higher education and the workplace this will change radically.

@bling has summed this issue up perfectly, thank you for your post.

CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 11:35

Yes teens know what S. T. E. M. stands for they just don't know what it means.
yes they do...it's not that difficult. If you're saying they don't know every single job that comes under the STEM umbrella then of course they don't. Nobody does ....there are literally hundreds of them!
However,I bet they could name some jobs where those subject would come in useful? They could speak to a careers adviser who also wouldn't know every single job but could facilitate a deeper discussion around their interests, subjects and career options. There are also lots of websites which allow you to research what you can do with a particular degree which also useful

Miffymeow · 06/03/2019 11:41

If it was a fun holiday then I would be upset, but it's an educational event to encourage girls into STEM careers. I work in engineering and there are hardly any females among us. Maybe one in 50 or something.

Sorry but yes yabu.

BlingLoving · 06/03/2019 11:41

I couldn't help but think, as I looked around the room, how sad it was, though, that this may be the only time in their entire lives that these young women would be achieving over their male counterparts.

I've been thinking about this, sort of, recently. But being in my mid 40s, my realisation is that i didn't even get THIS. I went to a small, not terribly academic, private girls school at first. And I can honestly say that while I was academically at the top of every single class, I was never once praised for it. In fact, it was seen as a chore - I needed different reading books and would get bored in class so discipline became a problem for the teachers as I'd be reading my own book instead of taking part.

So I guess we should see the girls being praised at school as a step forward? But FGS, it's been 35 years since I was at school. we should be SOOOO past this by now.

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 11:42

OK I am going to go now. I have a World Book Day costume to make. Yes I am doing something 'traditionally' female. I have realised I very much enjoy creating and making things. Apparently I could of made a career out of it but unfortunatly I wasn't just given no job/career advice on 'stem' jobs but quite frankly anything at all. I would love to see good quality career and job advice for both girls and boys but from my experience it's still very very poor. Bye all.

KittyVonCatsington · 06/03/2019 11:47

Yes teens know what S. T. E. M. stands for they just don't know what it means.

...in your opinion.

goldengummybear · 06/03/2019 11:54

Yes teens know what S. T. E. M. stands for they just don't know what it means.

GCSE students will be thinking about A levels and degrees and it's good for them to know that STEM careers aren't limited to computer programmers, scientists working in laboratories and people who work at hospitals like doctors (all jobs that kids in primary schools could come up with as STEM jobs.

CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 12:02

I would love to see good quality career and job advice for both girls and boys but from my experience it's still very very poor.

It's improving. Plus don't think that your experience is the same for everyone......

echt · 06/03/2019 12:02

OP still not back, after posting a thread so very close to International ;Women's Day.

Hmm
Mandapanda85 · 06/03/2019 12:07

Here's an idea....

While the girls are at the STEM event which is so greatly needed, run a lesson for the boys on HOW to support a woman in their career. By not putting them down but encouraging them to continue their development and actually having our £&%#* backs. My working with us equally, on all things.

I'm ALL for more women in STEM careers and we need to address this now. And bullshit it's gone too far this will never change without a massive kick up the arse.

It's 2019 and we're STILL being spoken down to, STILL being humiliated, STILL being overlooked. Why? Because it's still not NORMAL and until that changes we're on a road to nowhere.

YogaWannabe · 06/03/2019 12:09

YABU

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 06/03/2019 12:16

I couldn't help but think, as I looked around the room, how sad it was, though, that this may be the only time in their entire lives that these young women would be achieving over their male counterparts. I'm sure that as they move into higher education and the workplace this will change radically.

Apart from the various female project managers, senior and lead engineers I work with who have been promoted on the basis of their experience and recognised expertise in their chosen field. Yes there is a way to go yet before we have absolute parity in the engineering world but equally lets not portray the women who are working in the industry as hapless victims whose achievements are never recognised. Certainly from my experience there is zero room for the 'Tim nice but dim' types that might populate other industries, such folk are exposed very early on and are too much of a risk to keep in any kind of position of responsibility.

TatianaLarina · 06/03/2019 13:36

I'm sure that as they move into higher education and the workplace this will change radically.

Not necessarily 36% more women now apply to uni than men.

Women outnumber men at Oxford for the first time ever.

grinningcheshirecat · 06/03/2019 14:07

*@Sexnotgender *
*I expected you to be older grinningcheshirecat!

I’m 36 and happily took maths and physics at school and did a maths degree. Shame on your dad (and mum?) for holding you back like that.*

I was pretty angry at the time but couldn't actually do anything about it. My mum thought the same, I had good grades (much better than both my parents at that age) and she always said I needed to be dumber because men don't like women who are just as smart or smarter than them. I absolutely disagree with my parents way of thinking. Girls can do and learn anything that interests them.

Butterpup · 06/03/2019 14:39

YABU

They should have not been left to muck about though. It would have been an ideal time to have a class discussion about why the girls were going in the first place. They could have got a discussion going on why women tend to end up in lower paid caring roles and men into higher paid careers and see if the boys could have come up with some positive reasons or ways for change.

Smile
Mmmhmmm · 06/03/2019 15:01

Guess the OP has flounced off since no one agrees with her.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 06/03/2019 15:15

They could have got a discussion going on why women tend to end up in lower paid caring roles and men into higher paid careers

What reasons would you have told these boys?

jay55 · 06/03/2019 15:32

In my alevel computing class there was 1 other female in the class of 25, only in the first year though as she dropped the subject.
In my degree course there were about 20 of us who were female out of 200, and only a quarter of the 20 were uk students. The year below had 240 students and less women than my year.
That was 20 plus years ago and it was hard.

I don't know that I'd have had the confidence to apply if it hadn't been for the Computing for girls, alevel taster day, I attended at my sixth form college when I was in year 11.

There was, in the same series of a-level taster days, a psychology for boys day, as that alevel was female dominated. Many girls applied to go to the psychology for boys session, no boys applied for the computing for girls one.

It would have been ideal if the boys could have gone on a general taster day at the same time but it isn't the worst thing in the world.

SachaStark · 06/03/2019 15:34

I'm not arguing that women don't apply to university, nor suggesting that the ones who work in STEM fields aren't recognised.

What I am arguing is that, overall, the gender pay gap still exists, and it's highly likely that many of my Year 11 girls recognised at school for their hard work will likely earn less money and be in less senior positions than their male counterparts in the future.

Unless there is significant societal change, of course.

EBearhug · 07/03/2019 02:05

most people would rather enjoy watching paint dry then listen to what my day job entails

I assume Dulux and the like will have STEM jobs where you basically do have to watch paint dry.

I work in IT and I've spent most of my career being the only woman.

I think one of the issues is that people don't know what many of us in STEM jobs do. I'm a unix sys admin, but most people outside of tech won't know what that means (which is installing, configuring and managing large computer servers.) Apart from teachers, medical staff and forensics on detective dramas, we don't often see depictions of people like me on TV. It would be easy to do in a soap opera, have a computer worker of some sort who worked from home (because on soaps, I think the sort of work is partly dictated by hie available it will make you for storylines.) A noral person who just happens to work in IT or whatever. But what we actually get is the IT Crowd and the Big Bang Theory, which both promote the stereotype of socially awkward, geeky male. People aren't going to say, "you're really good at that thing you're doing, have you thought about a career doing ?" if they have no idea what jobs are there. And a lot of them can sound totally incomprehensible and/or totally dull to people with no experience of it. (I was going to say "to outsiders", and that's probably an issue, too - I think there can be an "us and them" attitude with some people working in STEM.)

There’s a ton of other reasons why women don't tend to enter STEM careers. I do think one of them is that women in STEM are constantly told about all the barriers against them, (sometimes, girls deciding to take a non-STEM path seems very rational in that light,) but most of my male colleagues have never once been asked to represent the company at careers fairs or to think about how they contribute to the industry & company culture, and what they could be doing to make it all more inclusive. How nice to have that privilege, and just be able to think about your actual job all the time.

mathanxiety · 07/03/2019 04:40

bookmum08
Teens need to be taught about JOBS.

THIS ^^

There is a massive disconnect between the curriculum and the steps beyond that. Hundreds of thousands of teens live in families where parents can't answer the question 'What does a civil engineer do all day?' or 'What is a quality control manager?'

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