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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Boys left behind at school while girls get trip

514 replies

Quickchat1 · 05/03/2019 23:42

Recently my sons class went on an educational trip to a local university. But only the girls. The boys were left behind with a cover teacher listening to music and generally doing very little. My son is GCSE year and would have benefited from a computing and science event. No it was only for the girls with no mention of anything for the boys. I understand this was a STEM event for girls only but if there was a STEM event for boys only there would be uproar! AIBU?

OP posts:
goldengummybear · 06/03/2019 10:39

They need to be coding in primary and have actually picked computer science at GCSE.

Bollocks. You don't need GCSE Computer Science to study A level Computer Science and you don't need A level Computer Science to do an undergraduate degree in Computer Science.

I work in the industry and degrees in Maths and Physics are also very respected.

SoupDragon · 06/03/2019 10:39

Quickchat1 is a very recent poster on MN and has not chosen to respond to his/her thread.

But apparently all looks ok behind the scenes.

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 10:41

Fizzy I know what STEM stands for. Science. Technology Engineering. Maths.
I know that. I am not completely vague. But I would like to know an actual job title and what that job involves.
'Science' could be 1000s of different things. My niece is doing Science A-levels because she wants to be a paramedic. My cousin used to work in a job creating food coatings for chicken and that is 'science' too. Two completely different jobs that have no connection to each other.
Teens need to be taught about JOBS.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 06/03/2019 10:41

Girls do perform better overall at A Levels and more girls are going to university, but in the subjects that deliver the best paying careers, they are in a minority.

There is much research to show that it is a lot more complex than 'they are not interested'. At the age of 5, girls believe that they are as good as boys at Maths, by the age of 8, they no longer believe this.

At Secondary school, the number of girls taking physics and higher level maths is significantly fewer than the number of boys taking those subjects. Classroom behaviours and social pressures from all angles are responsible for this.

Things have not advanced significantly since the 1990's. Women are still in a minority at board level and women are still paid less than men, not only are they paid less for the same jobs though this gap is narrowing, they are also less represented in the higher paid jobs.

I did Engineering at University, when interviewing for jobs, I had one interviewer ask me if I wouldn't prefer to go into International Commercial Management instead as I could also speak fluent technical French. At another interview, I was the best candidate in the field (they told me) and despite expressing a strong desire to have a job in Manufacturing Management, the Male Purchasing Director pulled ran on the Female Manufacturing Manager and offered me an office based role in Purchasing. I asked them if they would reconsider as I would decline the purchasing role but would accept a manufacturing role as that is what I wanted to do, they would not change their mind. I can remember having to explain myself again and again as to why I wanted to do Engineering and not--- whatever alternative was deemed more suitable. My male colleagues were never asked to justify their choice of career.

worstofbothworlds · 06/03/2019 10:45

What would make a lot more sense is to have had a humanities and social care event for boys showcasing nursing and teaching and other careers where boys are significantly underrepresented.
Exactly.
I'm a STEM lecturer but in a subject with practical applications and I suggested recently that we have a talk to our female students about careers in STEM academia.
This was met with resistance but I have now got to the bottom of why.

We are in a subject that is fairly balanced at UG level and students can go on to academia, practical applications, or other things.
Our male students are not doing that well academically (lazy, some might say not me). But it isn't affecting their throughput into academic careers which is still heavily male dominated.

So - we had a proposal - have some male role models in the practical applications come to talk to the students about applying for those routes; and have a talk on being a female academic which is in theory open to all but in practice if I am giving it there will be some emphasis on mansplaining, people assuming you're admin, #metoo, the limitations caused by biology, and an opportunity to come and talk to me privately at the end if you have any experiences you'd like to share.

Still working on this but redressing historic imbalances is the aim.

Crabbyandproudofit · 06/03/2019 10:45

@Frecklesonmyarm I love your daughter!

The OP has disappeared. Hopefully to spend their time more usefully. Instead of bitching on MN why not work on persuading the school to run events/trips to help and encourage boys into areas where they are currently underrepresented?

CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 10:48

bookmum look at that link i posted....it lists dozens of jobs and offers some descriptions.

Also,if you look up Gatsby Benchmarks you will see what schools and colleges now have a statutory requirement to work towards.

Stinkytoe · 06/03/2019 10:49

Instead of bitching on MN

I’m sorry, I find this so ironic.

It’s such a stereotype to pin “bitching” on women.

BlueSkiesLies · 06/03/2019 10:50

Perhaps your darling boy could campaign for a 'men into childcare or care work' day at school?

StormTreader · 06/03/2019 10:50

"If you care so much, and are oh so wise, why can’t you offer help and advice?"

I have just googled "STEM Jobs" and the top suggestion under "people also ask" is "what jobs are in the STEM field?" that takes you to a big list.

Googling basic questions doesn't require help and advice, it just requires you to actually try rather than waiting to be helped.

KittyVonCatsington · 06/03/2019 10:50

Bollocks. You don't need GCSE Computer Science to study A level Computer Science and you don't need A level Computer Science to do an undergraduate degree in Computer Science.

In fairness, things have changed. Before, when not every school offered Computer Science, universities could not ask for it and focused on Maths instead. Now, due to the large number of schools offering it, it has become a "useful subject" and most universities now (including a couple of Russell Group universities) now will offer 1 grade lower if the A Level is in computer science (for computer science degrees), even if technically you could get an offer without it (albeit it a higher grade offer).

Too many posters on here have rendered Computer Science GCSE and A Level as 'not needed', when in fact, it can be very useful (I struggled to catch up on my computer science degree compared to those who had taken it for A Level - would have loved it if my school had offered it)

Crabbyandproudofit · 06/03/2019 10:59

@Stinkytoe

I get the irony. I don't think there is 'masculine' equivalent? By which I mean I can't think of a word not that men don't do it! Perhaps it's called 'constructive criticism' or 'justified anger'?

anniehm · 06/03/2019 11:01

My dh was one of the leaders on the women in stem day, it's for a very specific reason, lack of girls continuing in science (they also had a bame day and a low income/parents not attended university day). It's part of widening participation. Dh also only takes girls on for work experience as they are struggling to recruit women into the department post PhD and are under a lot of pressure to change that.

Wallsbangers · 06/03/2019 11:03

Haven't read every post so sorry if I'm repeating but these days are part of a much wider initiative to encourage more take up of subjects in minority groups. There's been a big push to encourage "white, working class boys" (the govts phrasing not mine) to go to uni so lots of uni's have had days specifically for young men to go to their local university and have sessions.

In a previous life, I ran a men into teaching event for students, do you know how many boys booked on? Zero.

mcnaughtyf · 06/03/2019 11:06

Hey look, I've just had to google STEM! I agree partially with OP - the boys should have done something else. I don't see why the bus load of kids couldn't have been split up on arrival so that the boys and girls get their own separate careers talks. Stupid to leave them at school with what sounds like a fill in teaching assistant.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 06/03/2019 11:06

Actually. . Correcting myself.. for the last two years boys have reversed the trend and have beaten girls in performance at A level.

So while girls held a slight advantage for a short time, which sadly did not reverse the centuries of imbalance, this is no longer the case. Girls no longer outperform boys at A level.

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 11:11

So rather than give me an actual answer everyone is just telling me to ask Google. What I have been trying to say is the phrase/word 'stem' has become such a thing it doesn't actually mean anything to many people. My daughter is 10 and 'stem' is a word she will have heard since Nursery Class. But do teens actually know and understand it? That is what I have been trying to say. I can picture the scene in the classroom..
Boy A: where are all the girls today?
Boy B: they have all gone to some stem thing
A: what's that?
B: errr dunno

Ftryoh · 06/03/2019 11:17

I'm a female software developer, the only one in the company I work for. I've helped out with females in stem events before, so many girls think it's not for them, not surprising in a way, the computer geek, scientist, etc in the movies is always male, stem toys etc used to be more targeted towards boys.
All girls events takes away some of the nervousness about appearing outside the norm, let's them ask questions that they'd perhaps be too nervous to ask in boy dominated stem classes, get to ask questions of women working in the stem areana. Having seen them up close I think they're a fab idea and helps the problem of girls thinking it's not the areana for them

BlingLoving · 06/03/2019 11:17

The problem with these arguments and "discussions" is that basically, there are two kinds of people taking part:

  1. Those who are wiling to acknowledge the deep historical social inequalities and the reality of a world that subtly and consistently tells girls they should go into caring professions and men should go into "action" professions
  2. Those who think that because there is no law against women doing whatever they want, it's therefore a non0issue and really, we should just accept that girls just don't want to do these things and/or that it's up tot he girls to step it up and put on their "big girl pants" and do it if they want to.

The second group also therefore spend a lot of time worrying about discrimination against men and clutch their pearls while squealing, "But what about the men?" They believe the fact that the vast majority of their female friends and family who are either primary care givers or in "softer" career paths do it by choice. They point to that one woman they know who is a hugely successful city lawyer/ banker/ engineer and say, "see, she can do it. There's nothing holding women and girls back".

CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 11:18

bookmum the link I provided gives you lists of jobs with explanations and links then to subjects taught in schools .....what more do you want??

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 06/03/2019 11:19

bookmum08
PanGalatic but what do you actually 'do' in your job

My industry (oil and gas) is made up of multiple engineering disciplines, typically:

Process
Civils/Structral
Piping
Electrical
Instrument
Metallurgy
Geological

and a few other specialist niche disciplines as and when required
We all work together to come up with a design 'solution' to the clients project goals (a new refinery, a new pipeline and coastal loading facility, tank farm, offshore platform etc). Those solutions have to conform to prescribed industry design standards and parameters as well as accommodating the harsh environmental conditions of where the facility has to operate.

I am personally a civils/structural engineer specialising in marine offshore and subsea engineering. I have a civil engineering degree and a masters in offshore & subsea engineering. I help design all structures that support the equipment that we install on the seabed (well heads, manifolds, production and injection trees and all the associated kit that connects them all together).

Lets be honest, most people would rather enjoy watching paint dry then listen to what my day job entails, but I enjoy it, it pays well and has allowed me to work around the world.

CostanzaG · 06/03/2019 11:19

Spot on bling 👍

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 11:20

All I have been trying to say is the word/phrase 'stem' probably doesn't actually mean much to a lot of teens. My girl is 10 and will have heard the word 'stem' since Nursery Class but I doubt she could use it to define an actual job. I can picture the scene in the classroom..
Boy A: where are all the girls today?
Boy B: they are all at some stem thing.
A: what's that
B: errr dunno

BertrandRussell · 06/03/2019 11:22

I honestly think most teenagers will know what STEM means.

bookmum08 · 06/03/2019 11:22

Thank You PanGalatic for actually answering my question.