Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

I agree, @DuchessOfPhysics there are abusers in all walks of life. Focusing on Catholics isn't fair. I'm an Evangelical by background and we have our fair share of abusers. And there's a tendency to bury heads in the sand and pretend it's not there.

I’ve seen it a lot. People relying more on what the priest tells them than their own common sense.

@PreseaCombatir, I'm sure everyone's waiting with bated breath to hear the full breadth of your experience as a child abuse social worker with years of experience of Catholic families, and their tendency to cover-ups of familial sexual abuse -- in early medieval Europe, or wherever you imbibed your anti-Catholic prejudices.

seaweed I was baptised a catholic, raised in a catholic family, I went to a catholic primary and secondary school, up to the age of 18, about 90% of everyone o interacted with were catholics.
I maintain what I said

I'm no expert but I see red flags in what you've written. So I agree with the majority- trust your instincts.

I have experienced a similar situation. One of my Dh's male relatives set off warning bells in my head from the first time I met him. I can't think of a great way to describe this so I'll just say I found him "creepy". He was too friendly, too tactile, etc. Yet he was adored by my husband's family. They saw him as an amazing, warm family man who was maybe a bit of a flirt in a way that was transparently jokey. Anyone outside the family seem to also just find him warm and jovial - a 'salt of the earth' type. He was really popular, generally. I couldn't say anything but subtly kept some boundaries. Anyway, this man has since been convicted for sexual abuse on several counts - child and adult. My instincts were right. I was glad I'd protecting myself and my children.

In my experience though, devout catholic families are more likely to keep anything like this as ‘family business’, ‘behind closed doors’ etc.

I think this focus on the dh’s family being a catholic is nonsensical, as is something like the post above. The only victims of sexual abuse that I know (because they told me) are Church of England and Muslim. Surely pp aren’t saying that a Catholic mum would keep schtum if her dc were abused? Utter nonsense.

@PreseaCombatir

I can't comment on the Catholic Church, as I have precious little experience of it. But what you describe is sadly not much different from conservative Evangelical churches, sadly. I have a friend whose DH sexually abused her DD and her pastor told her that they mustn't report it because it would bring shame on the church. And apparently it was her fault because she hadn't been a good enough wife.

It's depressing that previous little has changed from my childhood, when there was collusion within our church in keeping the abuse suffered by my DSis and me secret.

It wasn't just our church, it was the high Anglican convent girls' boarding school I went to as well. (I was a day pupil.)

So I can believe what you're saying.

But it certainly isn't a Catholic thing specifically. I think it's very likely that all denominations have been guilty of cover ups and this needs to be faced up to.

@lam23

at the end of the day it doesnt matter if we think YABU or not. shes your daughter. if alarm bells are ringing then you do what you need to do. However I would just keep it to yourself as you have no proof and he has technically done nothing wrong.

Can I ask, you say..... dh’s sister, who has kids . I assume these are his DNs? Whats he like with them?

and her pastor told her that they mustn't report it because it would bring shame on the church

That’s exactly it, the whole concept of bringing ‘shame’.
Upon the family, upon the church, upon the community.
I mean, commiting these acts is not shameful, amazingly, just the act of making others aware 🙄

Surely pp aren’t saying that a Catholic mum would keep schtum if her dc were abused? Utter nonsense.
Well I can assure you 100% that at least one would (and has), due to ‘advice’ from the priest.
Of course Noones saying every single mother catholic turns a blind eye at their dc being abused.

What I’m saying is, there’s a certain element in the catholic ‘community’ whereby they will willing ‘not see’ anything that will bring ‘shame’ upon them.

But it certainly isn't a Catholic thing specifically. I think it's very likely that all denominations have been guilty of cover ups and this needs to be faced up to

Definitely! I think it’s a widespread problem in all faiths tbh.
I think in a way people do it because it allows them to feel they have been ‘absolved’ of responsibility because a ‘faith leader’ has told them/heavily implied or whatever something, so they’re doing right. I don’t know.

Some people are just shit!

Although, I don’t think ignoring it, or saying anyone who acknowledges it is accusing ‘all’ members of that faith is helpful either.

Although, I don’t think ignoring it, or saying anyone who acknowledges it is accusing ‘all’ members of that faith is helpful either.

I agree. I'm definitely not saying that! But sadly I think it's more common than a lot of people would like to believe.

The hypocrisy is astounding as well. Sex outside marriage is always wrong, according to them, but we should turn a blind eye to child sexual abuse??

Don't you think this is sad?

I never felt the need to speak to DS about this. Not until he was actually more independent. And even so, not as clearly as that.
Because I never felt the need to. Because nobody in my family or friends made me suspicious in the least

I do understand what you are saying totally, but personally for me I told DC at a very young age.

It could be a member of staff at Nursery or School and that is why I felt the need.

Surely pp aren’t saying that a Catholic mum would keep schtum if her dc were abused? Utter nonsense.

Irish here so I’ve not commented on the whole Catholic thing but I have known more than a few catholic mothers who did indeed do exactly this.

So, PreseaCombatir, what you are in fact saying is that this was your experience in one Catholic family, and that you acknowledge that it is a problem in many different religious faiths. So your earlier assertions that it is ‘more likely’ that devout Catholic families will cover up child abuse are unfounded nonsense.

It’s my opinion and experience seaweed
If you want to dismiss it, feel free.
Whatever floats your boat. Lucky for you if you don’t immediately recognise the type of ‘devout’ family I’m referring to.
But many people recognise it, believe me

You do realise that that sort of devout family occurs in all sorts of religions, don't you?

But this issue is irrelevant to the thread and a distraction from the actual problem at hand.

Yes, I clearly realise that, because I said it!

Anyway, you’re right, this convo is going in circles, people are just acting dumb and contrary now.

It’s deffo not helping the OP, so I’ll leave it at that

I'm glad that you started this thread, OP. Reading your posts, you're getting more and more sure of your own thoughts and needs, and those of your dd.

ANY adult who had a particular child's best interests at heart would abide by the boundaries that the child's parent establishes, even if they don't agree with them. That's because their primary relationship is with the adult, not the child.

I have a single male friend who is known to be 'great with children'. The difference being is that he actually is. He's completely respectful of their boundaries and defers to their parents about eg is it okay to take her to the playground? He doesn't tickle, wrestle, cuddle or encourage children to be physically close to him. He buys small token gifts on birthdays sometimes. He doesn't try to involve children in his interests beyond 'would you like me to show you how to play that chord on the guitar?' Certainly not 'special' interests. He leads play with them for a bit, then goes back to speak to the adults.

What you've described is classic grooming - in fact, the whole family is and has been grooming you and your dd. Someone once described grooming to me as sort of taking over someone's mind and making them doubt their own thoughts - that's exactly what the brother and the rest of his family have been trying to do to you.

The more information you give about this guy’s behaviour and the family’s towards him, the more I say you should trust his instincts. This is as a survivor of childhood non-sexual familial abuse, and a teenage rape. (Non-familial.) So many alarm bells are going off. I would even suggest doing some background research... is it Clare’s law? And see if anything has ever been brought up against him or his friend.

@justilou1 where child sexual abuse is concerned, it's Sarah's Law, named after Sarah Payne. Her mother campaigned for this for many years. Clare's Law is connected with DV.

I am in Australia. I knew it was a girl’s name in the UK.

OP, I scanned through the thread and just wanted to say ... always trust your instincts, especially where your children are concerned.

Best of luck with this situation. As a single mum to girls with no father figure (of any type) I completely understand your worries but like nirvana once put it, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Your DD will get over the BIL disappearing quicker than she'd get over any wrongdoings by him.

Huge red flags now.

1 - Bullied DH when children;
2 - BIL is golden child (DH has been conditioned not to think the family dynamic isn't normal. I suspect BIL knows DH won't challenge him about grooming DD, but will act out the family narrative);
3 - Men are right in the family;
4 - The cartoon and the fandom and 'our thing' - JUST NO;
5 - Fakeness to the BIL's personality - possibly supported by being in law enforcement where he can have a 'persona' and his fakeness is not questioned - maybe can't form or maintain appropriate adult relationships and relies on authority figure persona to navigate adult life, maybe gets along fine with colleagues when they are all in uniform or talking shop (Goes along with the Golden Child scenario described by IdaBWells)
6 - Exclusive attention to your DD at family gathering.

Men of 31 are not friends with children of 3.

If your husbands family has a Golden Child, you need to pay attention to who created the dynamic and what they gain from it. Someone gave everyone in the family roles and that is by definition a dysfunctional family because people are not free to be themselves they are forced to play a role. There is a good chance your DH and his brother feel under pressure to please someone and they will throw you and your dd under the bus if necessary to please that person. It will be very threatening to the family dynamic if you don’t play along and accept your role. [IdaBWells]

Quite honestly, speaking as someone with past experience of an IL family dominated by someone with Cluster B PDs, you can't win here unless you persuade your H to go NC with the lot of them. Do you see that happening?

That fandom thing conditions a child so young to an acolyte role. It may also provide scenarios for BIL to propose acting out under his direction, which would condition her to sexual abuse (this could also be done in the guise of role playing based on the cartoon).