Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

571 replies

Lam23 · 04/03/2019 14:27

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

OP posts:
Lam23 · 05/03/2019 12:57

Also wonderwall- my family like my dh and think he’s a good guy and even through protective eyes see that he has developed a good bond with my dd. But they don’t quite gel with his family and vice Versa. I wish we could distance ourselves (even in terms of physically moving!) so dh could develop more independence from them. It feels like this is stunted because of their dynamic.

OP posts:
Lam23 · 05/03/2019 13:00

Yoga we got engaged after a year then married. It just seemed right. We both were sure. I guess it was quick.

OP posts:
OfficeSlave · 05/03/2019 13:01

OP, i know you have said you will, but please do seriously consider your husbands reaction and actions he takes when you talk to him about this.

If he refuses to take any concern, or make significant changes, that are upheld and not just 'yeah fine' and then never sticking to or implementing them, you need to consider your future.

You have already mentioned his family treating your child like property, like she belongs to them, that you had to persist in setting boundaries with your husband with regards to her care.

If you have children with him, i dread to think what a time you will be in for, and possibly, the children themselves. It will be a lot harder for you, a lot. Imagine if you later split with husband and he has visiting rights and you have ZERO control of what, where and who your children are spending time with... his brother. Please consider your own sanity and your future children.

Of course if your husband supports you, your concerns and takes them on then you don't have so much of a problem, only in monitoring and enforcing rules in future.

But his response and actions are crucial, please please for you and your daughter - be aware of what his response is and take it for what it is. If he truly can't see that this behaviour is inappropriate then he wouldn't be someone i would build a life with. If he cant see past his golden boy bro then don't expect him to 'see' you, your daughter and the multitude of other issues women face.

It strikes me as unusual(not saying impossible or unheard of or always sinister!) that his brother is so invested in a child that isn't actually a relation. He has known her a very short amount of time. Its not his brothers first child. Of course people come to love step children, adopted children etc just as they love children they birthed, we come to have people we love as family, that arent realated to us in any way, of course. BUT he is a step uncle and he seems very, very over invested in a short period of time. It sounds intense, all of it, not just a growing, natural relationship that evolves over time.

Well done in putting your child first, protecting her and trusting your instincts. It truly is a gift she will thank you for.

YogaWannabe · 05/03/2019 13:03

I wouldn’t think it was super quick by normal standards just as a single parent myself it took two years of dating someone for me to see the cracks so couldn’t imagine being married and everything by that time.

If your DH wants to spend time with his family that’s his right hit you and DD certainly aren’t obliged to. You could spend that time with other mums or old friends etc

IM0GEN · 05/03/2019 13:15

Dh himself can be “controlling” but in a relatively benign way (suggesting I give up work without lining up another job.. he thinks it’s a nice offer as I hate my job but I know that i would lose my independence.) Also his desire to have input with dd has always been slightly more than I would like and it’s takdn a while to drum it in his head that it really is my call

What is your instinct telling you about this OP?

CouldBeAnyoneReally · 05/03/2019 13:16

It’s nothing to do with the family being catholics Hmm How utterly offensive to even think that.

FizzyGreenWater · 05/03/2019 13:18

OP, I read this thread last night and all the alarm bells it rang with me have been confirmed this morning by the additional information you've posted.

The reason you don't feel in control of this, or able to find a good way of maintaining the control you should have over what is happening to and around your DD, is because you actually don't know ANY of these people that well. Do you realise, you say upthread that you've only known the brother for two years - but the reason for that is that you've only known your own husband for the same amount of time, actually less if you met him when your DD was two and she's not even four yet?

What is happening here is that simply, you're only now at the point where you are really getting to know, from experience, what this family is like. The brother may be the biggest flashpoint here (and I think your instincts are spot on there) but it's just part of a much bigger and very worrying picture - of a really quite worryingly controlling family with some very strange 'norms' who have been quite successful so far in completely engulfing you in a pretty clever way. (You could even go further and say that you were an ideal target - you've alluded yourself to the subtle ways in which you find yourself in a position where you should be 'grateful' to have you, the single mum - and therefore your daughter - 'adopted' by this 'lovely' warm family...)

Only now, when you're more familiar, you've had more opportunities to see them up close, you're beginning to worry. And the problems start with your own relationship - if it were a case that your DH was more 'your outlook' with a weird family then you wouldn't be feeling like this as you'd be able to talk to him and have strategies for dealing with them. But - you didn't know him any better than you knew them when you jumped in and from everything you have posted he sounds pretty much cut from the same cloth. You describe a manipulator, a man whose instinct is to try and control, who you've needed to walk on eggshells around. Be careful. He knows when to back off and when to push, but as you get to know him better, you're seeing him more clearly. Do you really like what you see?

Two years is NOTHING.

This is why you need longer before really committing and this is what people have meant upthread about safeguarding with reference to your DH. Your DD was so tiny when you met him that the 'introduction' is neither here nor there - she won't remember a time before him, he is to all intents and purposes her father figure and always has been, it's not about attachment, and your DD sounds lovely and you sound totally on the ball with her. What folk are talking about is the wider picture of - is this guy really the lovely person he seems, can I trust that he, his family, his lifestyle, his values - are what I want for me and my daughter? When you married this guy, you simply did not know him or his family well enough to judge that and I think that you are now getting to that point based on first-hand experience.

My advice would be this. Firstly, to be absolutely blunt, I think that it is quite likely that you and your DH may split, and if I were you I would set out my stall now and not pussyfoot around. You have nothing to lose yet. You don't share a child. You haven't been together that long at all. Tell him how it's going to be, and fuck what his family think. Set out all the boundaries regarding his brother, your rules for YOUR dd now. His response will either be what you'd hope it would be, and he will shape up and get over himself, or you'll see the real him. And yes, tell him that in YOUR family, these are the rules. His family aren't more central than yours. Nobody has more of a say over your DD than you do. One of the most worrying aspects of your posts is your DH's immediate attempt to control here. He does - not sound great. At all.

Don't let him and his family softly manipulate you into buying into the narrative that you're the weak little incomer. Don't get sucked in further over the next couple of years, buying into the narrative that THEIR family are the core set of people, you're the addition, and they call the shots - it will just get so much harder to see the wood for the trees. Carve out your place in YOUR life now. If you can see that they won't let you do that - then for your DD's sake as well as yours - leave him.

Don't get pregnant. Whatever you do.
Don't give up your job.
Don't forget just how short a time you've really known any of these people.
Don't be afraid to open up to your family about how you feel - they will support you.

GoldenWonderwall · 05/03/2019 13:22

Well you can see it as well then, you’re just putting it down to your husband’s good nature and his love for his family. Having met none of you and only knowing what you’ve written, I think the signs are clearly there that all is not right and I just hope for everyone’s sake the positive interpretation of your husband’s behaviour is the correct one.

Regardless, the uncle could not be waving more red flags than if he was made out of bunting so you must severely limit his interaction with your dd. I’d avoid his entire family to be honest - it does not sound like they would protect your dd at all and would actively encourage the relationship regardless of its inappropriateness.

I hope you can use counselling to process some of what is going on for you here - I get the impression you have your boundaries prodded regularly by your husband and his family and it’s in your interests to understand what is going on there and why you’re addressing the prods but not the prodding.

Lam23 · 05/03/2019 13:25

Fizzy... thank you for your post. I’ve reread it a couple of times. I really, really needed to hear that and you’re spot on about a lot of things. I think because of my past with grooming abuse from teenage years and the abusive patterns eg with dd’s bio dad, I am an easy target but my main preoccupation right now is making sure my dd is NOT an easy target, and also recognising that to an extent I have allowed dh and “his normal” to become my normal.
Thank you.
It is seriously scary to think I might end up divorced after everything else but I also know I would be ok.
I have no intention of giving up my job, I have my own decent savings and finances and a strong family and friend support network. I am actually very lucky. Being a single mum destroyed my self esteem I think, but it’s coming back with a vengeance.

OP posts:
Lam23 · 05/03/2019 13:27

And it feels quite liberating to realise that I (and dd) don’t HAVE to be ingrained in his family. I am sick of it anyway.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 05/03/2019 13:33

I'm a Catholic. We don't do this shit. It's not normal. Or reasonable.

FizzyGreenWater · 05/03/2019 13:37

Lam I am so glad you don't feel my post was patronising or something and that it might help. You sound ace, your instincts are spot on. If you can even identify how your past experiences might have clouded your judgement a bit and resulted in a 'jumping in too fast' here, I take my hat off to you even more.

I think you sound like someone emerging from a very tough time in your life and now, as a parent, really beginning to take the reins and realise you aren't prepared to take crap that you can see isn't in the best interests of you and your daughter. Your self esteem is absolutely coming back with a vengeance!

Divorce doesn't matter a fig. If he's not the right person, get out. It takes a brave person to admit it's not the right man or life for you - if it comes to that, I don't doubt that you're brave enough.

Your family sound great by the way and it's fab that you are so close to them.

Good luck xx

TooManyPaws · 05/03/2019 13:38

And no "law enforcers" ever crossed a line into sexually abusing someone ?

Precisely my point. If he is innocent of evil intentions, he should still know that his actions are raising red flags, therefore....

Lweji · 05/03/2019 13:42

If he is innocent of evil intentions, he should still know that his actions are raising red flags, therefore....

Or feels confident enough. It wouldn't be the first.

YogaWannabe · 05/03/2019 13:47

OP I’m thriller to see you sounding so strong.
Fizzys post is fantastic and I think she has outlined things many of us danced around or didn’t word quite so eloquently.

AnimalBabysitter · 05/03/2019 13:48

@FizzyGreenWater great advice. It takes a lot longer than 2 years to realise you're married to a manipulator. I'm speaking from bitter experience.

Lam23 · 05/03/2019 13:51

It’s funny because I’m definitely a feminist and outspoken in a lot of ways but the thought of a simple “I’m not comfortable with this around dd. I want it to be like xyz” had me tied up in knots because I thought it might offend or make me seem like a bitch. Who cares?! A good partner will support me in this and even if it sounds bitchy, it doesn’t matter. I think it’s so easy to be a people pleaser.

OP posts:
lovefriday · 05/03/2019 14:02

OP, you are right to be concerned & this family are not respectful of you or DD. It feels as though your wishes have been squashed. Well don't let them do this! I'd go NC with them all. It's just not worth the risk.

Explain to DH. If he doesn't like it, you'll know where you are.

Lam23 · 05/03/2019 14:05

On some level I worry he will accuse me of being controlling trying to keep him from his family, or being nasty as they’re good people trying to include us.
The thing is I never asked for any of it and I don’t need that level of contact or involvement.
I do think he will react badly.

OP posts:
SeaweedDress · 05/03/2019 14:12

they come from a Catholic background and I am aware that there has been some abuse issues around that

Catholic priests have abused children, and had the church hierarchy cover up for them by simply transferring them to another assignment, rather than handing them over to the law. That's Catholic priests. Not Catholics. Catholics are not any more predisposed to be child abusers than Anglicans, Hindus or Quakers. Hmm

Newyearnewme2019 · 05/03/2019 14:28

My DD was 15mth when i met my DH. He came from a lovely family and i have no concerns about them but in the whole 15yrs we have been together, his siblings have NEVER looked after my DD (and subsequently our DS) there was never any need to. If we need a babysitter, then my mother or sister did it, there was never a need to ask them (and if they couldn't do it, we didn't go)

His family wanted me and DD to rely on them closely, to become really close but i kept them at arms length and quite firmly told DH that i have my mother and family and don't need his as a substitute and what goes down with my children will ultimately end with me having the final say. He can have an input and i will take on board his wishes but if i'm not happy with it, it's not happening - end off!

His DM/DF know that i am the matriarch of MY family and the views and beliefs i hold are the ones they have to adhere to.

With regards to what to say if your DD sits on laps - i would simply give an instruction and firmly say " DD name, get off BIL knee, we don't sit on peoples knees at the table or on the sofa or on the floor" (delete as appropriate) and tell BIL FIRMLY, don't let her sit on your knee, get a chair for her please/sit her at the side of you" and if he says he doesn't mind, just say that you do, and DD needs to do as you say.

You have then given them both and instruction that needs to be adhered to and tell BIL that you expect HIM to make it happen.

And i would also not visit as often with DD in tow if you can help it

ForeverFaithless · 05/03/2019 14:34

I agree with Fizzy.
Stop second guessing yourself, you don't need to respond to everyone who has an opinion here.
Take the steps needed to keep your daughter safe, you won't regret it.

AnimalBabysitter · 05/03/2019 14:36

@Lam23 On some level I worry he will accuse me of being controlling trying to keep him from his family, or being nasty as they’re good people trying to include us

Well if he does I'd be off

Lweji · 05/03/2019 14:57

That's Catholic priests. Not Catholics. Catholics are not any more predisposed to be child abusers than Anglicans, Hindus or Quakers.

Even Catholic priests, I suspect (no hard data). It's the cover up over the years that was (still is) the main problem.

Lweji · 05/03/2019 14:59

I do think he will react badly.

Remember that he's not her dad. He's not as emotionally invested in her protection as a parent and his blood relatives are likely to be more important to him.

How will you react if he doesn't want to ensure she's protected?