Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

Op your gut (and the heart) have neurons and neurotransmitters just like the brain in your head, gut instinct is not just a woo thing.

Listen to your entire brain and find a way to safe guard your dd.

It's irrelevant what anyone else thinks, trust your gut instinct.

Bollocks to anyone who doesn't agree with you your daughter is your priority, any half decent person would understand that.

Yes we see his family a lot. At least once a month altogether then dh sees his dB once a week often brings him back to ours (I’ve been timing this so dd is already in bed or out with me!)

OP I wouldn't be considering having a child with this man until the situation is resolved to your satisfaction. If you cannot control the environment your DD is exposed to, you will have much less say if DH is the father.

If he won't support you then, if I were you, I would leave him.

I think deep down I worry that dh need for his family approval and his loyalty to them is equal to if not greater than, that to me and dd... the fact that this concerns their family (especially his idolised brother) is a potential flashpoint. Agreed that this is no good in future in terms of any kid we have together. My family is quite close but we do have boundaries and there’s no pressure in any way whereas dh family way more intense and I don’t feel in control.

How long have you been with DH?
It seems baffling he wants so much control in regards to your DD?
What kind of things do you mean?

OP, if you don't put your DD first, nobody else will.

It’s entirely your call but many of the men in our family our very tactile with the children. Play with them, tickle them, buy them nice gifts, sit and play games with them at family events. Admittedly all of them have a female partner too, but I think if they were single they would still be the same with their nieces/nephews.

I just mean he argues that we are a family (share costs for dd) and we should to some extent share decisions/parenting for dd. I’ve posted about this on here before and most posters said that this was right. Nothing sinister. He has also really backed off from that because I think I was really reluctant to share parenting.

Absolutely trust your instincts on this one. While it could all be very Innocent, you need to go with your gut. Maybe now is the time to start discussing boundaries with your child and make it very clear that you do not have secrets and that no one should certain areas of her body. I was 5 when my abuse began so my sister and I discuss with my niece from the age of 3 about her body and no one is allowed to touch her. Obviously this is done in language she would understand so we are not scaring her.

My dd has always been fixated on men. She's 5 now but has been really into men since she was 2 or 3. Every time a workman comes to the house to do something she follows them around or makes excuses why she has to be in the same room as them and then she stands by them chatting away. She doesn't do this with any females other than female family members. So this may or may not be a warning sign for your dd.

My dh is a child magnet and he has always adored children. He's very good with them and everywhere we go children flock to him regardless of whether he is giving them attention or not. He has always been amazing with children but that is because his family are very child orientated and all the men are very hands on with the kids when it comes to looking after them and playing with them. So again, your dh's brother might just be like my dh.

However, the one thing that you can't excuse away is gut feeling. My dd was a particularly cute toddler and she got a lot of attention everywhere we went when she was younger, much of it coming from men. The attention she got from most of the men felt fine to me, however, there have been a few times over the years that the attention she has received from certain men (strangers to us) has made me feel uncomfortable. It's not anything in particular that I can put my finger on that is any different to what another man is doing. It's just a sense of unease that a particular man brings out in me. It's hard to describe. It's like a feeling that even though a particular man is being nice to my dd it feels like there's something nasty bubbling under the surface that I can't see. Every time this has happened I have grabbed my dd's have and swept her away or put her in her pushchair (when she was younger).

If you are sensing that something doesn't feel right then you are absolutely 100% right to follow your gut instinct and protect your dd however you can. Hopefully it's nothing but it's really not worth the risk to your dd to let your guard down for even a second.

No one has paedophile instincts. If they did, they would be employed by the police and SS to root out actual paedophiles.

What you describe is perfectly normal interaction between family members who like each other. I behave exactly the same way with my best friend’s DCs. Her 3yo call me his ‘best friend’, it’s a cute nick name, I buy them loads of present so because I don’t see them often, we do loads of cuddles, kisses and tickling games because I love them. It is possible for adults to love children that are not their own, biological DCs and there is nothing wrong with that.

The way you speak about your DD is worrying though. Your worries that she is too friendly with men, that her lack of male role model in her very early years may open her to abuse, etc. is just unjustified psychobabble.

@Booboostwo

I must disagree with you. In this day and age (sadly) adults just can't behave that way around kids that aren't their own, ans parents have to be super aware.

This we do loads of cuddles, kisses and tickling games because I love them is right out in my book.

I don't know if you are male or female @Booboostwo but any unrelated man who seeks excessive physical contact with a child sets off alarms for me. As does a related man who isn't the child's parent.
We all know what lines we draw and some may be tighter than others but I trust the instincts of the child's mother over an internet random with no personal knowledge of the family.

Also, dh brother is not one of my “best friends” your situation is also different? Idea he was maybe I would have a different feeling about it but as I have said repeatedly I don’t really get a good vibe from him adult to adult, let alone adult to child. We have known him less than 2 years, he is not experienced in childcare and his only reason to be around her is that I’m married to his brother. My own brothers while also living nearby do not have this intense relationship and to be honest I wouldn’t encourage it either.

What you describe is perfectly normal interaction between family members who like each other

You can't possibly know that , that may be true in your situation but not in others.

Not sure why the Op is getting some posters giving her a hard time. She doesn't have to let anybody near her daughter who she is uncomfortable with, whoever they are. I completely agree that tickling and hugging children who you are not related to, can be viewed as strange behaviour.

She doesn't have to let anybody near her daughter who she is uncomfortable with

I can't understand this either

Also the ' not all men' 'there are women offenders too you know' 'I do this all the time'

all true, but not relevant

callmeadoctor

agree completely

I read a really interesting article the other day about parents trusting their instincts about people.

In the article it said "In her interviews with convicted sex offenders, Berkower learned that most offenders report “their greatest fear” is having someone call them out on their grooming behavior and this can be “a huge deterrent.”

www.phillyvoice.com/parents-intuition-children-health-prevention-sexual-abuse-pedophiles-tips/?fbclid=IwAR20n9Vq-8l0wn41sHCsclJIYFmQCaCxhrMqucJveTgrxXJSQjCQU6s9ddk

I have a friend who is a policewoman. She used to work with sexually abused kids. She said the best way to protect little children from sexual abuse is to get in first and educate them at their own level of understanding. They have to know that not all grownups are nice, and sometimes they like to hurt children. Even grownups that they know and love. Here is the most important part for you - you have to almost brainwash her with this part - the rule for protecting herself is that there are no secrets, and Mummy will never, ever be angry! (*If she repeats “There are no secrets in my family!” Or “Mummy said grownups shouldn’t ask children to keep secrets!” it will usually stop a predator from trying to convince your kid to play a “secret game.”) Explaining to your child that there is no legitimate reason for an adult to be wanting her to keep secrets from you is vital.

From the above link I found this example of a conversation with someone who was crossing boundaries into grooming behaviours really interesting. Address it openly, state that it is not appropriate in your family.

"In our family, we don’t single children out like this and it makes me very uncomfortable. I ask you stop bringing my daughter gifts. I want you to stop touching her or tickling her."

“I didn’t mean to offend you,” Ralph states. His voice shakes.

“I hear you,” Marla replies. “I appreciate you listening to me and taking my concerns to heart.”

"Giving a child “special” treatment, gifts, frequent non-sexual touching, and requesting time to be with the child (especially alone) are well-known grooming tactics"

This from the article too is pertinent

Re the "he's in law enforcement..." (though not sure how this squares with minimum wage?) "...so he'll have been 'cleared' by a DBS check." schtick, this counts for nothing.

First, the check is a snapshot of a moment in time.
Second, it only picks up on those who are recorded on the system as having been apprehended for something.

I've been DBS-cleared. It doesn't mean I'm a good, decent trustworthy person (I am, honest Guv!) only that I've been been successful at flying under the radar, and haven't been caught or suspected of anything.

I think the OP's instincts and her Mum's and sister's observations are spot-on. This is screaming all sorts of alarms at me. I'm retired now but in my former life I worked with child protection professionals. The D'H' 's family dynamic is so strongly-insular and IMHO dysfunctional (adoption FFS!) that the OP is almost being gaslighted into believing their behaviour is normal.

To stand any chance of this having a successful outcome in terms of the OP stayIng with her partner AND protecting her daughter, the OP's partner needs to have her back 100% in challenging his family's behaviour. Sadly, that's not going to happen from her description of the dominant mother / golden child brother / bullied partner.

I agree with PPs' suggestions of the OP's instincts being based in real, but subconsciously-noted warning signs. To the OP: 'The Gift of Fear' (cheap as chips on Kindle) might give you more confidence in relying on your instincts. Also, you sound a bit isolated, and overwhelmed by the clamour of your partner's and his family's desires and opinions. I urge you to seek counsel from your own family (who sound wise) and trusted friends. How do you get on with the Nursery staff? Could you discuss things with them?

I wish you well. You sound a great Mum, and a strong, intelligent and wise woman who was doing just fine until you encountered the sticky mesh of this family. Try to take a step back. If you are owed any leave, take a few weeks holiday and stay with your family, just you and your daughter, and remind yourself what normal looks like.

I’d rather hurt a thousand innocent men’s feelings that put my kids at risk tbh.
They’re hurt? Oh well!
All you people berating the OP should be fucking ashamed of yourselves, because you’re all paedophilie enablers!
He might not be, means he might be, and that’s good enough for me, when it comes so my children