Does this sound like grooming? Please help- step uncle

[Lam23]

Posting for traffic/I’m not sure where else this belongs..
Background if it helps: I’m a mum of a nearly 4 year old. She is very bright, happy, outgoing, completely normal development wise and attends nursery full time. I met dh when she was 2 and they have a great relationship, which has grown over time, i can honestly say I really trust him and she has started to call him daddy which feels natural for us all. Her dad has never been in the picture and we have no contact with him.
I have recently begun to have real worries about her relationship with my dh’s brother. He is 31, unmarried, no kids. Generally quite an immature guy (loves gaming, works minimum wage job and lives in a flat share) but seems pleasant enough since I’ve known him. However, since he met dd at a family gathering probably a year ago, alarm bells are ringing for me more and more and I don’t know if it’s instinct or paranoia. Every time he sees her he picks her ups lot, tickles her, cuddles her, he addresses her as “friend” (seems odd for a 3 year old), he always buys her extravagant presents whenever we see him. She is a trusting kid and I’m beginning to think, too trusting- because of all the positive attention he gives her (and maybe because she lacked a “dad figure” the first couple years of her life?) she absolutely loves him, talks about him loads, nowadays whenever he is there at a family gathering she just wants to go to him and has a tantrum if I say no or keep her next to me. It seems really excessive that she is so into him and that he had instigated this type of relationship with her- dh’s sister, who has kids, has what I would consider a more normal relationship with my dd and is lovely to her but definitely doesn’t push the boundaries. He has now offered to babysit a few times and I refuse point blank each time which I think dh is a little upset by (dh idolises his brother and I can’t talk to him about ANY of this). It happened again yesterday with lots of cuddling, sitting on his knee. My own brothers don’t do this with my dd and I feel like I can’t put a stop to it, but she is so trusting and I don’t know how to protect her. Whenever she needs a male figure she seems to get overly attached anyway, but for me this is going too far. She doesn’t want to be near me or dh when his brother is around, the amount of presents makes me uncomfortable and I feel like the physical stuff in public is a possible first step of grooming. Can anyone please help me understand what to do, it’s a really sensitive situation. Does this sound odd? I would appreciate anyone who knows about signs of grooming etc to weigh in. Do I sound crazy?
Fwiw my mum and sister are both teachers and having witnessed the interactions said that their own instincts were kicking in too and that the developing relationship wasn’t necessarily appropriate/he seemed a little over interested in kids.
Please help, this is stressing me out so much whenever we are around family.

"any unrelated man who seeks excessive physical contact with a child sets off alarms for me. As does a related man who isn't the child's parent."

Not just men. I have stopped a young female from tickling a stranger's baby in a pram on the bus. The baby's mother did not seem comfortable with the situation but also seemed unable to speak out.

The young woman was tickling the baby between her legs but over her nappy and along the insides of the baby's legs whilst cooing and making the high pitched vocalisations that people typically make towards cats and babies.

I just said something like "I don't think you should do that. It is not a good idea for her to learn that it's OK for strangers to touch her there do you?"

The woman stopped immediately.

The young woman may have simply been tickling the baby in a way that seems weird to me but is usual in her family or culture.

I am not an expert on cultural aspects of tickling babies and obviously I cannot determine whether the woman's intentions were good or bad.

Whatever the situation with the woman on the bus or with the OP's child parents should feel empowered to state clear boundaries about who touches their child, in what way and to prevent touch that they do not feel comfortable with.

A number of posters have suggested that the OP makes the boundaries clear without being critical or accusing of the step-uncle. I think this is extremely helpful advice.

Even if the step-uncle is a lovely man who would never harm a child it is not helpful for young children to learn that it is OK to develop special, exclusive (as in spending private time) friendships with adults as it may place them at risk from predators.

I was abused within my family as a child and I was extremely vulnerable to being abused as a result. In fact I was abused as a result.

What saved my life was that many adults, ranging from teachers to the parents of my school friends were extremely loving and supportive of me and helped me to feel loved.

None of the teachers or friends' parents ever treated me as a friend or attempted to spend time alone with me. If they had done so they probably would have been able to abuse me with impunity as I had such a strong need to be loved.

So basically I think that it is important for children to be able to love certain adults, from teachers to extended family members, but for boundaries regarding physical contact to be made clear both to the child and the adult/s concerned.

What kind of adult male (or female) is into cartoons that 4 year olds like?

.... I like cartoons and comics. Astrix, Dangermouse, Thundercats, She-Ra, Mouse- Guard. What do you mean by that statement @Lweji?

What annoys me about stuff like this is the women can't win

Report : oh poor men they are not all pedophiles you know

Don't report: how can that mother not have known, why didn't she protect her kids?

It's always the woman's fault one way or another

.... I like cartoons and comics. Astrix, Dangermouse, Thundercats, She-Ra, Mouse- Guard. What do you mean by that statement @Lweji?

RTFT

Lweji means that in the context of this story, that detail is a red flag.
It is also perfectly within Lwejis rights to believe that to be odd

What annoys me about stuff like this is the women can't win

Report : oh poor men they are not all pedophiles you know

Don't report: how can that mother not have known, why didn't she protect her kids?

It's always the woman's fault one way or another

Exactly this

I in no way implied that it wasn't within Lweji's rights to believe that to be odd Crochetmonkey. I was just curious as to the reasons. I know a lot of adults who like comics and cartoons and are great with kids, they have yet to set alarm bells ringing (as far as I'm aware). It seemed an odd thing to fixate on and I was asking for more detail.

There's no need to be so aggressive.

Sorry if I haven't finished the thread but I would recommend a book called, PROTECTING THE GIFT by Gavin de Becker. Please read this and never ever ever doubt your instincts.

There's no need to be so aggressive
Nothing in my post was aggressive, just direct

Reading through the thread & this comment from OP stood out -

‘Dh’s brother is actually in law enforcement so I think he also is seen as very trustworthy by everyone.’

• as a massive red flag. In effect, he could be said to be hiding in plain sight.

Trust your instincts & the reasonable evidence you have. Because he is associated with people or an organisation who are deemed trustworthy, it does not mean that he himself is trustworthy.

Apply caution & protect your child’s wellbeing.

Back to thread.

Alright then Crochetmonkey.

There's no need to be so aggressive.

Literally nothing about that exchange was aggressive?!?...

Text communication is challenging Presea. This is why I brought up my perception of the communication, and was given the other side of it. Now we know that crochetmonkey did not mean to be aggressive, and I know that I do not need to upset by perceived agression that wasn't there. Isn't communication marvellous!

Tell him his behaviour is inappropriate and different from with his nieces and nephews. Your daughter doesn't have adult male friends. He's not her relative and perhaps doesn't yet recognise her as a niece, or feel that way.
No need to say you think it's sexually dodgy from his side, that is inferred if he wants to pick it up. Just say you don't want her to be too over familiar and to develop sensible boundaries. Watch him like a hawk and never leave your dc with him for a minute. Quite possible they are all trying to make you feel included but it's not ok.
Encourage friendships and activities with girls and concentrate on what is appropriate with her.

It seemed an odd thing to fixate on

She hasn't fixated on it, The uncle has fostered a cartoon unusual for his age group as a 'special' thing between him and the child. Coupled with him being a fairly new family member and her instinct this has become another piece of a larger puzzle that makes her wary.

Nothing to do with the cartoon loving general population

I am not trying to say that liking cartoons is odd. Anyone can like what they like. However dh brother has from a definite point at end of last year been trying to get dd interested in this one fandom that he likes, which she had never come across before and it’s not really current or even western so she probably wouldn’t have come across it since I determine what she watches/reads and there Are some things she’s actually not allowed to watch despite her chagrin (horrid Henry, scooby doo). I remember dh even joked “DB really wants to get dd into X” and it’s becoming this running joke but tbh I am a bit like - I didn’t approve this beforehand so that’s quite pushy, and also, if he likes it so much why can’t he get another adult interested not my 3 year old?
Maybe I should just digress but I really do think that it’s a way for him to get to her.

Thanks for that article upthread. It honestly rang so many bells.

The thing is my dd is quite groomed if that’s the right word. If we are at dinner and I say “no you can’t go on Xs lap” she throws a tantrum because she “loves him”. without embarrassing anyone or confusing her how do I implement this boundary? When he is around she is hard to stop.

I meant the commenter, not the OP, crochet. But thank you for trying to explain anyway, I appreciate the effort.

I stated much earlier in the thread that I wouldn't consider his behaviour worrisome, but OP needs to listen to her gut and I agree that she should be careful if he's concerning not only her, but also her mother and sister. I was mostly just curious about the commenter's opinions on adults and comics at this point.

OP could you try a blanket rule to avoid confusing her and perhaps make the rule easier to stomach for her? At dinner we don't sit on anyone's lap. Or, you can only sit on mum's lap while we're out?

“DB really wants to get dd into X”

Oh my goodness OP, it's like they think she has no agency over what she likes.

If we are at dinner and I say “no you can’t go on Xs lap” she throws a tantrum because she “loves him”

This is hard but I think putting up with a few tantrums now, and 'we don't do laps except Mummy' might retrain her a bit. Why do you think that she thinks she 'loves' him more than others?

Actually OP the solution is to not allow this man to be in her presence at all.

Just say you don't want her to be too over familiar and to develop sensible boundaries

This is good advice - and also amazing how we are all so conditioned to not want to offend people (myself included) that we will literally put their feelings first.

I think it was Gavin DuBeke who wrote about humans will see a lift door open, not like the feeling of the person inside but then overide that and get into an enclosed space with them with no escape. No other animal would do that.

Monkey I do think it’s the positive affirmation. The guy seems very good at getting children inside by being physical and giving them unusual attention. Thing is she does get all that from me she just for some reason gravitates to him. Case in point at a a family party for both our families he ended up in the playroom (just off the lounge, we could see in etc don’t worry) with a load of kids he hadn’t met before. After a bit that was when my sister first raised the concern and she actually went and pulled him out of there readying myself for an attack on my sister being too suspicious, etc What was odd was that it was the first time he met my adult family members and didn’t speak to them at all and kept trying to escape the situations with them.
All very confusing.

To those who say dh family are insular and intense yes I agree. It’s one of the things that frustrates me in our relationship by like I said before I think he is very tied into them.

Sounds like you aren't the only one with alarm bells about this person. Trust your instincts.

So what's the plan OP?

I think you need to consider your future plans if your DH is not going to accept that his brother is being inappropriate.

Can you adequately protect your DD if her stepfather cannot/will not see danger? What if you have children with your DH? You call the shots with DD, but it will be a different story if your DH also has parental responsibility.

I’m going to open the convo with dh tonight and just say it’s time for some boundaries. In general terms.. but say that now dd is about to be 4 we need to start talking about pants rule, secrets, physical boundaries and also I will be frank about how I’m not comfy with dh brother being so touchy while I’m trying to implement these new boundaries. The one about “no sitting on anyone’s lap except mummy’s” while out is great- it’s simple but unequivocal. I think dh reaction will be telling, if he brushes off the stuff about his dB or says “my family’s just like that/affectionate” I will see he hasn’t listened. Then it’s anotjer issue.