Shamima Begum's husband

[yolofish]

uk.news.yahoo.com/shamima-begums-husband-made-mistake-144700935.html

Sorry, probs rubbish link, but Shamima Begum's husband would like to return to the Netherlands with his wife and their baby. AIBU to think that the country probably doesnt want the three of them, and that it's a bit late to say he's 'sorry' given that he only surrendered a few weeks ago?

I mean, I can imagine that they'd like a nice quiet domestic life, but this might just be a bit late in the day?

I don't have any sympathy for them. However, citizenship is an important thing and this blase attitude to removing it is shocking. I've never heard anyone suggest that repulsive white Christian British citizens should have their citizenship removed.

No one is blase about it, you bringing up white christians shows how you are trying to frame this argument, but if you can find a situation where a white christian was in the same situation cite it instead of pretending this argument based on the catch all dog whistles that only you hear.

The initial situation was that we had to accept her because of international law, I myself was calling out the fuckwits saying we should not accept her back and let her rot etc, etc. The overarching theme though has shifted from following international law to now that law is unjust.

Its glossing over the whole situation and using IDPOL oppression stack, (muslim/brown/women) as to why we should be more lenient as following international law hasn't resulted into the way some liked.

The ironic thing of the "left" is that personal responsibility is glossed over and want big government watching over, big government (multinational) has kicked in and its wrong because of its not nice.

but if you can find a situation where a white christian was in the same situation

In the same post I mentioned the Spanish civil war and security personnel.

Mark Thatcher?

Blackwater murders. That was Americans but again no calls for citizenships being revoked.

Jack Letts is at real risk of losing his citizenship now.

The only thing that might save him is that the U.K. government allegedly blocked his exfiltration by Canada two years ago, (which, if true, is a major scandal and therefore leverage).

Did that happen? Nope?

What the fuck is this revisionist partisan shit.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170613033441/www.john-mcdonnell.net/status_of_any_british_citizens_serving_in_israeli_military" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20170613033441/www.john-mcdonnell.net/status_of_any_british_citizens_serving_in_israeli_military

What the fuck is this revisionist partisan shit.

I agree he called for it. It didn't happen though. They still have theirs.

MrsTerryPratchett - Pretty sure the Government would strip the Citizenship of white Brits returning from ISIS is they were high profile (such as Sally Jones who is now dead) or Samantha Lewthwaite (if she ever tries to come back to the UK pleading sympathy). I think it has less to do with the colour of the skin and more to do with how profile the case is and whether the ISIS member was featured a lot in the media.

In the same post I mentioned the Spanish civil war and security personnel.

So we are going back to the Spanish civil war for comparisons on current cultural issues....

The mental hoops are just becoming more laughable, holding historical situations up to modern standards gets into a whole murky world where no one comes out on top, you applying the progressive IDPOL stack is going to have to come up with a better one than that.

We can't safely monitor every jihadis that wants to come back and kill.

I'm sure there was some sort of kill program out there? Whilst the fighting was going on I was surprised I never saw it mentioned on here.

I'm sure the government would love to get rid of all jihadis citizenship whatever colour they are but they can only do it on cases with dual nationality.

Agree with Oz.. make going too caliphate a crime and that will cover all bases.

I agree he called for it. It didn't happen though. They still have theirs.

That was not your initial argument though, the shitshow of the IDF wasn't at war with the UK nor a proscribed terrorists organisation recognised worldwide so duel citizenship wasn't brought into question, shifting the goalposts isn't a good look in the topic of OP.

Just I can't help thinking you are really trying to argue points you want to and not others. I ALSO mentioned Mark Thatcher, security personnel shooting civilians, the IRA and you chose to only look at the oldest one.

I am actually debating in good faith so if you are only interested in cherry-picking to suit your emotive appeal to the harshest punishments, with no regard for human rights or due process or international law or trying to aid poorer countries or deterring terrorism, go right ahead. I'm out.

I can't help thinking you are really trying to argue points you want to and not others. I ALSO mentioned Mark Thatcher, security personnel shooting civilians, the IRA and you chose to only look at the oldest one.

No, I am trying to point out your whataboutism in bringing up non relevant historic situations as being somewhat comparable to this scenario, it is not me trying to muddy the waters here.

I am actually debating in good faith so if you are only interested in cherry-picking to suit your emotive appeal to the harshest punishments, with no regard for human rights or due process or international law or trying to aid poorer countries or deterring terrorism, go right ahead. I'm out.

To say this in good faith and bring up your apparent "gotcha's" is comical if I didn't know you where being serious, still have a good night.

Nope, my politics are to the left I think Shamima Begum is completely in the wrong and I think that Tommy Robinson is a violent police, woman beating idiot. Tommy Robinson would probably fit in ISIS well.

I don't have any sympathy for them. However, citizenship is an important thing and this blase attitude to removing it is shocking. I've never heard anyone suggest that repulsive white Christian British citizens should have their citizenship removed.

Comments like this just boil my piss. You really don’t have any idea of the law surrounding this. It’s illegal to make someone stateless. Nobody has been made stateless.

What Javid did was entirely legal. Citizenship can be removed from dual citizens so they do not become stateless. Following a recent court case, Bangladesh sent a legally binding Note Verbale accepting that children of Bangladeshi born parents automatically have Bangladeshi citizenship until their 21st Birthday. Begum is 19, she’s not stateless, she’s a citizen of Bangladesh.

I don’t know if her husband has dual nationality and if his Dutch nationality will be stripped, but even if it’s not she still won’t qualify for Dutch citizenship. Her husband would have to have a minimum income, be going to live with her and she would need to pass an exam. You can’t earn money in prison and nobody will employ an ex jihadi in a good job. She’ll never qualify to live in the Netherlands.

Nope, my politics are to the left I think Shamima Begum is completely in the wrong and I think that Tommy Robinson is a violent police, woman beating idiot.

I've been looking into this recently, and the police beating is somewhat murky, he apparently jumped over a fence to stop some muslims burning a poppy and video evidence meant he faced no charge.

I admit I have only been looking further into him from his recent panodrama youtube thing.

Tommy Robinson would probably fit in ISIS well.

He would, but this highlights the paradox I was pointing out earlier.

Comments like this just boil my piss. You really don’t have any idea of the law surrounding this. It’s illegal to make someone stateless. Nobody has been made stateless.

The overarching argument seems to be that we should follow international law and anyone opposing it is racist/sexist basing it on the fact she fits into the neat IDPOL oppressive stack of being "brown/religious" and female.

Now we have followed international law we should somehow ignore that because the oppressive stack dictates that because she is"brown/religious" and female it's racist sexist to apply law.

Its a perfect divide and conquer scenario, thing is it's the "left" tying themselves up in knots over this.

What a ringing endorsement of our airport security that you can leave the country on a passport that’s not yours.

Airport security don't check passports. UK airport border force also don't check or stamp passports on exit ( unlike most other countries).

The fault for not checking the passport lies with the airline on UK departure and the Turkish border force on arrival in Turkey.

she's already got the sympathy of the press

In what universe? A couple of 'maybe she's a victim too' opinion pieces doesn't change the overall hostile mood towards her (which I fully understand). The press in general is absolutely not on her side. Have to say that her and her husband's pleas to live a nice quiet life now don't wash at all - and neither do his excuses about an unhappy childhood.

Now we have followed international law we should somehow ignore that because the oppressive stack dictates that because she is"brown/religious" and female it's racist sexist to apply law.

Its a perfect divide and conquer scenario, thing is it's the "left" tying themselves up in knots over this

Exactly. International law has in many cases gone against the UK. The court case which established children of Bangladeshi born parents aged under 21 had Bangladeshi citizenship was one in which we were forced to take two men of Bangladeshi origin who were over 21. There are at least 400 jihadis here we’ve had to take back. Of course when that happens, people on the left say (correctly) that it’s the law and we must follow it. But now they object to the same law when they don’t like the outcomes.

The SDF holding her say they have evidence of her involvement in genocide and war crimes. Javid will have much more info than the general public to assess her threat.

And she is a threat. She thought the UK had to take her back. She made deliberately offensive comments designed to sow discord and divide our population. Her intent was to frighten people and create fear of Muslims so that people start to be suspicious about the Khan family down the road because they start to think that is what all Muslims think. Then the Khans are discriminated against and experience racism so they become more vulnerable for targeting by those like ISIS. It’s an old tactic and Anjem Choudhary and Abu Hamza used it very effectively in the past with poppy burnings and offensive signs.

The discord and division she would cause her justifies her never coming back. Even if she harmed no one herself she could agitate and radicalise other children.

Come on, Tommy Robinson is not a nice man, people’s outrage over Shamima Begum is well justified i’m not sure anyone from any side politics is debating that. The majority of people completely agree with that she has shown no remorse what so ever.

I am sick of the divisive and angry language that’s currently being used in British Politics and I’m astounded that people can not see just how dangerous it is.

We should just follow the law. Much as Bangladesh don't like it she has that citizenship so has lost her UK one (although the Dutch migh I suppose let her in with her husband although do they accept foreign marriages abroad under Sharia law in a state which is not a recognised state when the girl is 15? - probably not - so she will not in Durch law probably be recognised as married and as the husband is going to prison I suspect his parents may be the best people to bring up the baby).

We should just follow the law. Much as Bangladesh don't like it she has that citizenship so has lost her UK one

The Bangladeshi government seem determined to flout their own laws and deny everything, though, don't they?

The Bangladeshi government seem determined to flout their own laws and deny everything, though, don't they?

I don’t think I’d say that. It was until recently such a murky area of law that the two countries had to go to court to clarify it. When Sajid Javid was put on the spot and asked about it, he didn’t know and said it would be difficult to strip her citizenship. That was incorrect, after he took advice, he changed his position.

I think the Bangladeshi politician was also put on the spot and pressured into saying something not correct.

When push comes to shove they’ll have to take her.

I think the Bangladeshi politician was also put on the spot and pressured into saying something not correct.

Yes, maybe.

In fairness, it seems perverse that she should be their problem at all, but I'm cynical about all governments constantly bending rules to suit themselves.