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AIBU?

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Original poster

Murders in London

155 replies

snowdrop6 · 03/03/2019 09:32

AIBU to think that if the police had back the powers to stop and search anyone ,and to arrest any persons with a knife ,our country would be a lot safer..
I know it's not quite as simple as that ,as we need more officers on the street to do so ,and more prisons to house people caught with a knife .giving them a lengthy Sentence as well.
But would it not be at least a start? And if it saved one person from dying it would be worth it..
Plus if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind the police stopping you ,as you will understand they are just doing their job..

OP posts:
Kneehigim · 03/03/2019 11:27

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flashbac · 03/03/2019 11:32

We can't talk about anything about race because it brings out the daily mail educated bigots. Blame them when this thread gets pulled because they are too stupid to engage their brains and realise this isn't a simple issue of stop and search and bang them inside.

flashbac · 03/03/2019 11:34

Sorry, that's was a bit incoherent but I do get angry when racists ruin a thread.

mothertruck3r · 03/03/2019 11:35

Isn't the potential to save lives (with stop and search) more important than the possibility of being called racist? Surely most of the victims of knife crime are black/ethnic minority so if their attackers are stopped, this also stops them from being potential victims?

Scabetty · 03/03/2019 11:39

Nobody goes to youth clubs after 14 years old. They tried to start one up round here and got little interest. The latest stabbings in my area happened as the boys were walking home from school. Another was a girl in a park hanging out with mates. Not sure exactly what went on as lical newspaper reports are vague. I seriously want to move away from London but am tied here for work.

BarbarianMum · 03/03/2019 11:42

Does the "potential to save lives" mean you'd be happy with a ban on car use mother? Thousands die on the roads after all. What about forced vaccination and smear tests - that'd save lives as well. Many of the decisions we make in society are a trade off between being left alone to go about our lawful business and risk. I dont think treating all members of a particukar community as potential criminals is the way forward.

BarbarianMum · 03/03/2019 11:45

There are other things you can provide though Scaberty. It's not a choice of youth clubs or nothing.

nancy75 · 03/03/2019 11:49

BarbarianMum but how do you get kids to engage with these things? Saturday morning football club won’t earn you the money for a new pair of trainers, chess club won’t get you respect on your estate.
Other than the threat of punishment what do we offer these kids that is better than hanging out with older boys, looking cool & earning a few quid to buy the stuff their mum can’t afgord to get them?

twattymctwatterson · 03/03/2019 11:50

Knee you're going to end up with a ban fairly soon if you carry on

Livelovebehappy · 03/03/2019 11:53

Flashbac; it depends on how you define a racist. Most people on this thread who have referred to race are doing so in the context of the crimes being committed, so it may need to be mentioned, no matter how unpalatable it might seem to you. We are all working towards a common goal here; to make our streets safe for ourselves and our children. It’s a very scarey world out there currently, especially in the bigger cities, and we have to address the very obvious issues. There are not going to be any easy solutions, but we must all work together openly and honestly, because the problem is not going to go away otherwise. We can’t just shut down debate on this or nothing will be done. It seems the stabbings are not all gang related, as we had the one which occurred in the very last few days with a young girl who on the face of it is not affiliated to a gang. It’s just awful at the moment.

Lasttraintolondon · 03/03/2019 11:55

Lots of the stuff in this thread is a distraction. There's only one major cause of violence: poverty.

Our society has become more and more unequal with conspicuous displays of wealth and the top 1% earning more than everyone else put together. If you have little stake in society, is it a surprise when you go off the rails?

Until we address this there are two options:
1.) little sticking plasters: stop and search, youth clubs, social workers etc.
2.) Big sticking plasters: hugely long jail terms, more police, legalising drugs (tax them, regulate them and put the money back into helping people)

The sticking plasters though are just that. We either adopt a more community-based version of capitalism or we don't.

BarbarianMum · 03/03/2019 11:59

What can you offer? You can offer sports. You can offer dance and drama. Music. Art. Dirt bike racing. Climbing. Skate parks.

All the stuff that kids in other areas do and enjoy.

And when you do it, you're providing kids with the chance to belong to a world bigger than the estate they live on - and the chance to engage w safe adults and mix w positive role models. A chance gor support that diesnt come from a gang.

You wont engage everyone. There is no silver bullet here. But in many places now the choice available to kids is sit at home or hang around on the streets. That's not a good choice.

easyandy101 · 03/03/2019 12:13

When did they stop doing stop and search?

I got stopped and searched about 2 weeks ago and they frequently have knife arches up where I live at main line stations

FrazzledNeedingCoffeeNow · 03/03/2019 12:17

It is such a hard issue isn’t it? I really understand that we shouldn’t assume and that this is incredibly hurtful.

I must say that the complete randomness of airport security sometimes seems silly on the other hand as well.... my Scandinavian 6 year old daughter (wearing leggings and long sleeved t-shirt, literally nowhere to hide anything without notice) has been searched three times in a row on the last few flights. I really don’t mind as she absolutely loves it, finds it beyond exciting, but if this really is random (as they say), it does seem to be a bit of time waste they could search others ? Last time we were behind a very dodgy looking guy, think druggie look, strange things in every single pocket (white in case anyone thinks I am being racist) , they went straight for my 6 year old for the random check Smile

Uptheapplesandpears · 03/03/2019 12:17

Personally I'm not sure there is a way to intervene that will lead to a reduction in this problem now, this year. Best evidence we have is that the most effective ways to tackle it take time. I realise that's unpalatable.

Namechangedforgoodreason · 03/03/2019 12:20

Dog whistle racism is not the same as debate Live Of course it's correct to point out black crime. I have myself

Other ways of tackling the issue are programmed of ex gang members going to schools, mentoring schemes, business sponsored placements. Most of the money has be ripped from this. Tory austerity doesn't care for these children anymore than it does for the homeless on the streets

Ironically it costs more for all the other services involved now. Police, social services, schools etc picking up the pieces

PlainSpeakingStraightTalking · 03/03/2019 12:20

Lots of the stuff in this thread is a distraction. There's only one major cause of violence: poverty.

Drugs affect rich and poor alike.

flummoxedlummox · 03/03/2019 12:40

Funny thing about stop and search is that some of those rascally young 'uns have cottoned on and often don't carry a weapon but have several stashed in various spots in their area.

Backwoodsgirl · 03/03/2019 12:40

There already is a automatic prison sentence for carrying a knife, people carry anyway. They obviously don't care about the law, so more law won't help.

Same as banning guns, now only hardcore criminals have guns.

BarbarianMum · 03/03/2019 12:46

Drugs affect rich and poor alike.

No, not alike. The trade in illegal drugs disproportiontely affects the poor.

NicoAndTheNiners · 03/03/2019 12:54

Someone up thread said a lot of the stabbings are gang related, tit for tat stuff. What about the girl who was stabbed in the park the other night? She doesn't seem the sort by what's been said about her to be in a gang and her boyfriend said guys in balaclavas came up to them unprovoked. I'm assuming it was a mugging gone wrong??

I do agree that spending money on stuff like youth clubs and youth workers to give kids something to do. Boxing clubs, free skating lessons at skate parks, dance academies, etc. Along with more investment in education and apprenticeships. Stuff like that so young people can have more chance of a future and are less likely to get involved in gangs and crime.

IceIceCoffee · 03/03/2019 13:03

The majority of the stabbings do involve young black males and there is often mistrust of the police . I don't see how allowing individuals to be targeted will help long term. The mistrust will spread and a result of this crime will increase. Individuals won't report any information to the police and will be pushed into the hands of the gangs.

Haggisfish · 03/03/2019 13:14

I have read it suggested the girl who was stabbed may have been stabbed as part of a gang initiation. I think it comes down to overpopulation and inequality.

nancy75 · 03/03/2019 13:22

We need to completely change the dynamic between the police & some communities.
There is mistrust but we are at a point where the police are almost in a no win situation.
We don’t want the police to stop & search young black men but when a young black man is killed the police should have stopped it / didn’t stop it because the victim is black.
The community want the police to catch the killer but the community won’t tell the police what they know.
Nobody benefits, it has been going on like this for years & more kids die.

Aquathest · 03/03/2019 13:24

No, not alike. The trade in illegal drugs disproportiontely affects the poor.

^^ 100%

For those of you taking the opportunity to portray knife crime as a 'black thing' please explain why there was the same problem in Glasgow which was the previously the 'murder capital of Europe'

The solution is multifaceted but please don't make this into a race thing - it has and always will be a poverty related issue and tackling poverty is our (all races alike) way out of eliminating these extremely sad crimes.
Most of the victims and perpetrators are involved in dealing drugs which is a very territorial 'business'

There needs to be a considerable investment in their education and welfare to steer them away from thinking the only way to have nice things in life is to sell drugs/ partake in criminal activity.

For example, young people who are frequently excluded from schools. Yes you may have stopped them from disrupting other children's learning within that school but all you have done is move the problem further along the line. It just becomes 'the streets' problems. Why is there not a sustained effort to catch a child before they are excluded? And I am not talking about sending them to an isolation room within the school! A real engagement with that child by outside trained professionals to get to the root cause of behaviour before they reach the point of exclusion

Stopping and searching someone potentially takes one knife off the street to be replaced the next day by someone else caught up in the same poverty trap . Where as successfully educating young people, changes the life chances and mind set of a generation.