Murders in London

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AIBU to think that if the police had back the powers to stop and search anyone ,and to arrest any persons with a knife ,our country would be a lot safer..
I know it's not quite as simple as that ,as we need more officers on the street to do so ,and more prisons to house people caught with a knife .giving them a lengthy Sentence as well.
But would it not be at least a start? And if it saved one person from dying it would be worth it..
Plus if you have nothing to hide, you won't mind the police stopping you ,as you will understand they are just doing their job..

You have leapt to a conclusion about a specific intervention, with very little evidence.

OP I suspect you're too young to remember the 'sus' laws and the impact they had on police community relations. They did far more damage and were indirectly responsible for a lot more deaths than they prevented.

Kneehigim i’m not but I grew up in SE London (not in a posh bit) and these problems have always been there - even when we had youth clubs

It’s not really black people though. It’s young black men. And males in general.
I think if everyone was a bit more honest rather than talking in terms of “ communities” or “teenagers” or “gangs” it would be helpful in pointing more resources to getting a solution.
I believe that lots of the IRA troubles resolved themselves when young Irish men benefited from economic prosperity.

Surely the reduction in stop and search against certain minorities is partly what is causing the surge in knife crime within those minorities @Namechangedforgoodreason 🙄

Along with a generation of really fucking shitty parenting across a portion of all races in society as a whole.

Ok
Those of you saying I'm wrong that stop and search is not a quick way to start get some knives of the street.

What would be a better idea? What could the government do/ implement/ put in place asap to stop more murders .as in not looking at a reduction in crime in 10 years ,but a reduction in knife crime now ,this year.

whether there is mistrust or not between the police and specific communities, these need to be put aside in order to make our streets safe.

How about addressing the root cause of the mistrust? Elements of the Metropolitan Police have been officially shown to be inherently racist, until that is addressed it is understandable that affected groups will not trust them. You can't trample over someone's fundamental rights because it might make things a bit better.

Since stop and search was abandoned,knife crime has rocketed...am I wrong?

In 2017, a 10 year study by The College of Policing found that stop and search had limited and inconsistent effectiveness.

Knife crime has rocketed, but not because stop and search has been abandoned.

As I said earlier, there is a strong link to gangs selling drugs for profit, although I think it is combination of lots of other factors mentioned here.

Section 60 has been temporarily reinstated in Birmingham and yesterday knives ceased. That can only be a good thing but we have to do more to tackle the cause.

Of course it's young black men and black on black . generally..crime. The statistics back that up

You black men who are influenced with the wrong version of what black masculinity is. Who have lower prospects of than their cohorts. Root cause is the only way to tackle this. And until austerity it was being addressed with targeted funding and schemes

Of course parenting comes into it massively. It’s absolutely safe to say these people start off pretty early in life on the path they go down, and there is a lack of basic parenting, ie where is your 13 year old son at midnight when he’s not home? Unfortunately a crap parent will mostly remain a crap parent. If a child has no proper parental guidance then they will be ripe pickings for older gangs to groom them because they then have a sense of belonging which is lacking in their home life.

This problem cannot be addressed overnight, any steps to do so will cause more problems than they solve. Alienate a big enough group and they will riot, and we don't have the police numbers to deal with that. I'm not just talking about London either, this is an issue in every big city.

It needs to be a long term approach. We need investment to reverse all the cuts made through austerity.

It is not necessarily crap parenting. That's too easy a target. It's multiple faceted

Tomtontom elements have been shown to be racist, although I’m sure there has been improvement since those original reports. Communities can’t straight out refuse to co operate with the police but then blame the police when something happens to someone in that community.

How racist of you

Tomtontom; but isn’t some of the mistrust spoken of so much in some communities used as an excuse to not be stopped and searched? It’s very convenient for some sections of society to use this as a stick to beat the police because they want to continue doing what they’re doing without any interference. And it’s worked! If the majority of stabbings in Leeds were carried out by white women in their 40’s, and I was stopped and searched more than other sections of the community, I would be absolutely fine with that. But then I’ve nothing to hide.

Knee is that to me? I'm interested in your obviously thought out views

Namechangedforgoodreason yes it is multifaceted but you can’t excuse the parenting completely - the mum saying her son was an angel when he’s on insta waving a gun with a pile of money & wearing a £2k watch could definitely have done more

Not excusing the parenting totally, just some parents. Many good parents have children that get involved in criminality. If you grow up in an environment that has role models who are criminals. If you are exploited by these criminals it is extremely difficult to get out.

Stop and search would not have made a difference with the two young people stabbed in a mass fight on the way home from school. Education does not appear to be working, the hard line approach was divisive and most of these young people have skewed moral codes, so are effectively unreachable. Parenting is a big part of it for younger teens, but by the time they are late teens, what can a parent reasonably do?

In South London, we've had cuts to Youth Services, along with social services, and a big impact was Kids Company closing. Yeah, it was dodgy, but it helped some kids get away from a life of no hope.

Instead of a pro-active approach, all agencies such as SS, the now very limited youth services, police, councils etc have a reactionary approach. Yes, stuff to keep kids away from crime, away from drugs, to give them hope for the future, to deal with their home life, is expensive but it seems to me cost overtakes lives. It pisses me off.

I live in a naice area of SE London but we still have stabbings here. I have coached dd on what to do if she sees a knife, or stabbing. Similar advice to what I was given, working on public transport. It's sad we have to tell our kids this stuff, but sadly if local and national government doesn't start getting their cheque books out, this will continue.

I didn’t say it was totally down to crap parenting, but I’m guessing if there was a study into the backgrounds of the people carrying out the stabbings, I bet the majority of the crimes are carried out by young people who have not been ‘parented’.

Knife crime is on a cycle, its nowhere as high as it was 20 years ago, but it is higher than 10 years ago

However, most 80% of violent attacks have no weapon, 6% invlve a sharp blade
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If the majority of stabbings in Leeds were carried out by white women in their 40’s, and I was stopped and searched more than other sections of the community, I would be absolutely fine with that

Easy to say when there's no likelihood of that happening. If white women as a group were totally disenfranchised from society and you'd spent your entire life being blamed for society's ills I can guarantee you wouldn't be happy to be 'randomly' searched every morning on the school run.

A previous police commissioner and home Secretary were very vocal on their condemnation of stop and search. To the point where police were actively encouraged NOT to search. This seemed to coincide with a rise in violent knife crime.
Subsequent police leaders have recognised this fault and now police are encouraged to search, with grounds of course, and there is less knife crime now that 12 months ago when London famously outdid New York for homicides.

Stop and search is a valid tool and is welcomed by many in London of all communities.