AIBU - Weird subconscious behaviour when women are out for dinner together - AIBU?

[Mazes]

I was out for dinner yesterday evening with four female friends (were all early 40s). No problem whatsoever with ordering the cocktails, but when it came to ordering from the food menu, one friend chimed in first with the, “I’m just going to go for a salad” and, as always happens, everyone else followed suit with the salads. Does anyone else find this or is it just me? One friend did ask for some fries “for the table” but then everybody just looked at them until they got taken away. I’m not on a diet and nor is anyone else as far as I can tell so why does this happen? Then when it came to dessert orders, there was an uncomfortable silence before everyone declined, of course. Then we had a pot of mint tea. Nobody ate the bread either. It was my turn to pay and I felt like the actual “food” part of the menu was there for decoration only.
AIBU to think this kind of behaviour goes on a lot without women even realising they’re doing it? It’s as if it’s fine to knock back 3 cocktails, but nobody eats a chip!

*MsTSwift

Last time we saw in laws we met in a pub for Sunday lunch and mil repeatedly food shamed my 10 and 12 year old (both slim) dds. “Ohhh an adult portion!” “You surely won’t eat all that” “a pudding too” on and on..."

"...We are seeing them in a few days ... what pissed us off was she kept going on and on about it - not a one off comment. Dds were baffled as we nor my family or our friends ever speak like that about food in front of pre teen girls. Plus it was their main meal of the day and both sporty..."*

As you're obviously aware, ten and twelve are very vulnerable ages for girls with respect to absorbing toxic messaging to do with food- and appetite-shaming and body image.

I'm wondering why you allowed her to repeatedly go on like that with her toxic nonsense rather than shut her down? And why are you waiting until she does it again before you address it?

"...MIL, before we meet for lunch tomorrow, I want to make something clear:

In our family, we focus on nutrition and energy and strength, and our portion sizes are appropriate to our needs and goals.

We do not calorie count or arbitrarily control portion size purely for the sake of it.

We do not categorise certain foods as 'bad' or 'naughty' or 'good'.

We do not attach any emotional or ethical weight to our level of food intake whatsoever.

I'll ask you now to never again comment on my children's weight, food intake or appearance.

It can make them self-conscious and introduce them to a disordered relationship with food and their body that can be very damaging to them and that we are trying very hard to raise them without.

If you cannot keep your comments to yourself, not only will you find yourself seeing less and less of us, you will not be invited to share any meals (or occasions where food is consumed) with our family."

I have friends like this. Minefield.

This tends not to happen if I'm there tbh you need to get yourselves a nice fat friend to take the pressure off the others

But I was annoyed recently when a friend whom I knew less well announced no thanks to dessert on behalf of the whole table when I hadn't had a starter and even I was too embarrassed to call him back

It is competitive non eating and that's why it's escalating- it's about competition not really food

Morning - sorry just catching up on all the responses. Wow I was thinking about all this - even when I’ve hosted school coffee mornings, I’ll make some muffins and get croissants in - I would say 95% of the mums will never eat any of it. I’m basically left with whatever I put out. It’s not just this particular group from Friday night.
I do love healthy food and I’m non-meat eating, so, as I said, I wouldn’t think to offer a chicken pie or burger in any case. But still, when I think about it, you never see women ordering this kind of thing when out for dinner (well I don’t)!
I think it’s partly because there are so many healthier choices now and also perhaps, as a pp said, people do eat out more often, so obviously you wouldn’t be ordering chips and puddings several times a week. I do have a friend who is a nutritional therapist and she talks about food A LOT and is permanently on some unheard of diet which bans certain food groups. I do find this a bit much tbh. But apart from that, I wouldn’t say anyone is good obsessed, just nobody ever eats cake - ever!

Yeah but quite a number would list fit body as a must-have given the chance, hence the fear and self-denial.

I agree with that but personally I think there is a huge difference between a “fit” body & what shape some of these women seem to aspire to.

Ce I did say something at the time - neither dh nor I find mil easy if I said what you propose ww3 would commence! We rarely see them and dds don’t particularly like or respect her so don’t think her views carry much weight fortunately. She’s not English and very hot on being shown “respect”....

Don’t like the women bashing on this thread - eg “get new friends”, “vacuous”, “competitive”. Having food issues is widespread among women and doesn’t necessarily mean we are any of those things.

So, Mazes having identified this as completely irrational behaviour, what will you do next time you see these friends? Eat what you fancy, or follow their lead and deny yourself for fear of being judged greedy?

I've never seen anything like this, but I usually eat out at Wetherspoons, where sidelong glances are cast and eyes rolled heavenwards if even a single pea is left on a plate.

group dynamics don’t help, eg teens, but don’t think competitiveness is at the hear of food issues - which this can be a symptom of.

I used to have this at work. When we had a lunchtime training session, the women would only eat fruit as they don't eat sandwiches. It was uncomfortable because when I ate the sandwiches I felt as though other people were watching me and judging me.

There was quite a competitive dieting culture there (young, high achieving women, one had a sister who'd been treated for anorexia). You were also more likely to get taken to client meetings if the senior consultant thought you were attractive (only one consultant admitted this - he told me in the pub that he always took an attractive young woman to meetings so the client had something interesting to look at when it got boring).

Limer - to answer you question, I’m not sure tbh. I mean I’m not going to start ordering masdivectoadt dinners or something, just to make a point. I’m veggie anyway . But yes, this thread has encouraged me not to hold back so much either. For instance, if I’m in a cafe and the muffins look good, why feel awkward about having one? It is ridiculous. When you see some of DH’s rugby team in the same cafe, they don’t even buy slices of anything, they buy the whole cake. The difference in eating patterns does irk me.

We took our DS and his girfriend out for lunch last Sunday week to pub in Chiddingfold. they all had toasties the size of a small planet and huge bowl of chips to share.

I had a small bowl of prawn bisque I left the prawns and two chips.

I heard the woman at the next table saying not very discreetly to her friend, no wonder is so skinny, friend replied too skinny.

We are going again today, they had better not comment.

I am skinny/scrawny (insert as appropriate) because I had tonsil cancer, they burnt my throat to buggery to save me, thereby taking out my salivary glands, so my throat is a third of the size it was and I have no spit to send the food down.

I can't eat meat, chicken, melted cheese, bread. toast, pate, salad the list is endless.

My friends and family accept it and don't comment.

So the next time you see someone not eating, don't judge because you just don't know.

My friends kind of does this but more with drinks and pudding.

Recent example went out for dinner but went to have a drink before. I asked everyone what they wanted so I could go to the bar. Every single person asked what I was having and then what everyone else was having. And it wasn't 'anyone else having wine so we can get a bottle' just wanted to know what everyone else was having.

Drives me mad! Just have whatever drink you want! Then we do it at pudding time too. I'm not a huge pudding fan only a few things will grab me but I'm down with cheese. There is often a big discussion of whether to have it or not. What's odd is with bread, starters and mains they'll have exactly what they want. So maybe it's a balance act. No ones overweight.

And for what's it worth I often get a salad with a portion of chips as I really like a good restaurant salad!

Not with me, it's steak and chips all round!

Oh good grief. Sounds like the least fun night out ever. I wouldn’t go out for a meal with people who didn’t want a good feed! Next time order a massive pizza and chocolate brownie then sit innocently scoffing it while they all blanche. Or maybe they’ll order some decent grub too, you never know.

My friends do this with alcohol. If they simply said "no thanks, don't feel like wine tonight" it would be fine, but they go on with "wine? Oh nooooo I couldn't posssssibly I had a sip of wine three weeks ago I don't want to pig out, I'm sooooo fat already" (they are size 8-10).

But I don't worry about it and just take it at face value - maybe they just don't want wine and they really feel like a salad. Maybe one sip three weeks ago is genuinely enough for them. Which is fine of course.

I then order what I like, of course paying the cost of anything I order and they don't eat/drink.

You need new friends OP. Sounds miserable. Why don't you just order whatever you want and see what happens

So the next time you see someone not eating, don't judge because you just don't know.

I'm sorry to hear about your health, but with all due respect, the majority of people who eat so little, the people we're talking about in this thread, do not have such issues, and are restricting their food intake for unnecessary reasons.

I wish my friends were like this. It would be a good influence on me.

Doesn't happen when I'm out with my friends, we all tend to get what we want, one, two or three courses and no one judges anyone who decides to order steak, chips and all the trimmings or just a salad.
If someone has chips and I don't I always pinch a few 😀

Definitely not like this with my friends. I'm usually the one ordering the extra portion of chips while my friends make healthier choices. I'm not easily influenced. Pass me the chips!

@BreevandercampLGJ I massively sympathise with this. I haven't been through what you have but I have been very skinny and people feel able to comment loudly and or inspect my food which is fucking not on.

Oh no my circle would ignore the salad eater and continue with the "proper food" wine and everyone always has dessert

Thing is OP you’re also buying into it. Why did YOU have a salad and not eat the bread or chips? You’re obviously just the same as they are :/

I’m veggie anyway . But yes, this thread has encouraged me not to hold back so much either.

Veggies can eat plenty of decent food too! But good for you in not holding back next time

I was brought up that it was good manners to eagerly accept cake/biscuits if offered, and rather a snub to the host if their home-made (or even shop-bought) efforts were refused (apart from genuine reasons such as allergies).