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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is it offensive or am I being silly?

999 replies

CocaColaaa · 02/03/2019 15:57

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

OP posts:
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5
PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 10:27

This is like bloody mansplaining with race. Indigenous Person. I find XYZ unacceptable. Mumsnetters. She doesn't really mean that. She actually means this...

BertrandRussell · 05/03/2019 10:37

“It never fails to amaze me how desperately some cling to racism as though it's a beloved childhood toy or a much needed support. Will your lives really be poorer without it? Why are you so scared to give it up?”

This is the question I’d really like the answer to. If I discover that something I am doing might upset someone else then, unless it is a big deal for me in any way, I stop doing it. Why wouldn’t you? Even if I secretly think it’s a bit silly. My ds hates the way peaches look and feel. So I put them in a separate fruit bowl. I think it’s bonkers, but it makes no difference to me. His granddad was upset by a proposed shortening of his name-it brought up bad memories. So we didn’t use it. There are loads of non Native American book characters to dress up as. Loads of toys that aren’t gollywogs. Loads of parts for white actors that aren’t Othello. Loads of books that aren’t Little Black Sambo.

pushpushglide · 05/03/2019 10:41

@PickledLimes

Huge generalisation here but racism seems to be an area where it is really hard to emphasise, especially in the UK where we also don't have a huge amount of traditions that are unique/sacred to our culture.

Generally if you are rich it's easy to understand how life would be hard if you are poor. If you are able bodied it's easy to understand why having no legs would make it harder to walk around.

But for some people the idea that simple the the colour of your skin is a disadvantage seems to be inconceivable. And you know what, if they've never had to deal with issues because of they're skin colour or culture that's brilliant but it doesn't mean that it's not true.

pushpushglide · 05/03/2019 10:45

Sorry empathise not emphasise! Hmm

zippey · 05/03/2019 10:52

@pushpush - Many cultures have committed atrocities on other cultures in the past. This past ridiculing cultures and making them feel inferior is obviously wrong.

However, we are in 2019 now, and I think it’s better for our future generations and cultures to forgive and try to move on from what has happened in the past, like South Africa and Northern Ireland have tried to do.

Isn’t it great that new generations can find common ground in cultures which in the past they might have ridiculed or hated?
And conversely, some of this ridiculed in the past have benefited.

I would maybe also say it depends on how it’s done. A 6 year old who loves Moana or ninjas is different to an adult doing it to look stupid.

recrudescence · 05/03/2019 10:53

Am I being accused of “clinging on to racism”?

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 05/03/2019 10:58

I'd let her go as the crocodile. Much more fun.

PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 10:59

It isn't the past for Indigenous peoples. They continue to be discriminated against, they continue to suffer because of past and present racism and policies, and there are still ongoing issues in South Africa and Northern Ireland. Just because some major changes have been made it doesn't make the past and all of the issues that past discrimination cause and continue to cause, vanish like a rabbit from a magician's hat.

PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 11:03

And again, back to the latest video for a moment. The video is titled 'Everything Wrong with 'Indian' costumes" not Everything wrong with Indian costumes in Canada(Of course we don't mean you. England, Australia or any of the other hundreds of countries I failed to mention)

hoodathunkit · 05/03/2019 11:05

This is like bloody mansplaining with race. Indigenous Person. I find XYZ unacceptable. Mumsnetters. She doesn't really mean that. She actually means this...

I would go further

I think it is a collective form of coercive control, all the strategies are the same, including the minimising, denying and blaming

CarolinePooter · 05/03/2019 11:06

Pushpush, I do totally get your point about discrimination based on colour. Hopefully in Britain we are starting to get beyond that. Children our our best hope here, and zippy is absolutely correct - it is 2019, for heaven's sake. Adults should set an example, not to be forever dragging up old grievances. Native Americans make a fair bit of money from tourism, so unless the costume is made of ancient sacred robes would they actually be bothered? The Amazon one doesn't look too authentic to me!

hoodathunkit · 05/03/2019 11:07

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness#prettyPhoto

Thank you for your contributions to this thread PickeldLimes

I very much appreciate them and am in agreement with everything you post

BertrandRussell · 05/03/2019 11:13

“Adults should set an example, not to be forever dragging up old grievances.“
So how long can you hold a “grievance”? My fil is no longer alive, but he would have been in his late 70s now if he was. Should he have forgiven and forgotten what happened to him as a young man?

CarolinePooter · 05/03/2019 11:14

Well it would be coercive control for someone thousands of miles away to try to dictate to mothers in the UK how to dress their children on World Book Day.

PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 11:15

You're sadly right and I can understand that feeling to an extent, PushPushGlide and I have no doubt that I've been guilty of it in the past and will continue to do so at times in the future, but I don't understand people not wanting to improve. I know that's it's oh so cosy in our little bubbles and that it can be painful and difficult to confront these issue and our part in them, but that doesn't mean that when marginalised peoples are asking for our help, for us to listen to them, that it's ok to walk by and say 'Sorry, not my problem'. Rejecting racism doesn't make our lives any poorer and makes life better for others. It also improves us as people and increases our knowledge. That's something to strive for surely. Yet people cling to it as though they're drowning and it'll save them.

hoodathunkit · 05/03/2019 11:16

"Adults should set an example, not to be forever dragging up old grievances. "

The exact words my sister used to opine about why I should "just forget about" the emotional, physical and sexual abuse I endured from my father as a child.

Telling someone who is hurting to "just forget about it and move on" is never helpful.

CarolinePooter · 05/03/2019 11:16

Forgiving and forgetting is often a healthy way to move forward. But obviously never on AIBU ;-)

hoodathunkit · 05/03/2019 11:19

Well it would be coercive control for someone thousands of miles away to try to dictate to mothers in the UK how to dress their children on World Book Day.

But they cannot dictate can they?

They can only share the hurt and pain that such fancy dress costumes cause them and then do nothing as various entitled white people disregard their feelings and do whatever they want anyway whilst portraying themselves as victims of oppression.

Thymeout · 05/03/2019 11:19

Betrand Paddy/paddy

I'm referring to paddy, with a lower case p, used for throwing a strop. It had never occurred to me before reading threads on here that it derived from the nickname for Patrick. As I'm sure you know.

Of course you should respect your father's feelings.

BertrandRussell · 05/03/2019 11:20

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

BertrandRussell · 05/03/2019 11:21

“Of course you should respect your father's feelings.”

Why? Surely he should just forgive and forget?

hoodathunkit · 05/03/2019 11:22

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”

this

and we are witnessing it in action here and now

PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 11:22

You were the one bringing up the bloody nuns! You don't seem to be doing much forgetting there, and neither do I think you should. If people have harmed us we have every right to be bitter, angry and frustrated by it. The choice to forgive is a personal one and not anything that anyone else can or should demand that the 'victim' does. And forgiving does not erase the past or the harm that was caused and that it may continue to cause.

And again, these are ongoing issues. They are not in the past for Indigenous people.

CarolinePooter · 05/03/2019 11:22

Well of course you can't dictate to someone they absolutely must move on, but be there to support them if they really want to. Conversely, if they do want to forgive and forget, don't stop them. Keeping a grievance alive is a burden, too.

PickledLimes · 05/03/2019 11:25

Black people demand that I do not keep their peoples as slaves. How very dare they tell me what to do in my home, in my country! I'm clearly being oppressed.