Why don't men get 1 year paternity leave?

[Catinthetwat]

I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this?

I think it's hard to defend unequal access to parental leave. This is important for men, women and for children. The only argument against is an economic one. Is that a good enough reason?

The government are currently looking into extending the 2 weeks paternity leave to around 12 weeks I think - which would be a start.

So, men should be given 1 years paternity leave with pay and benefits equal to women - aibu?

I have friends with PND and there is a) no way they could go back to work at 6 months and b) a very real possibility that being at home alone has made them worse. Both of them really need their partners to have the option to be off and care for the mums.

It’s not a remotely stupid post. It’s a valid and interesting question. While for many, the mother might want to be the one to stay at home (for breastfeeding, bonding, etc...) and the father may be the breadwinner, this is absolutely not the case in many families and should therefore not be something that’s exclusively offered to women. In families with a female breadwinner who chooses to formula feed, barring the need for some time to physically recover, it may make far more sense to have the father at home.

And until men give birth , I don’t think men and women will ever be 100% equal in the workplace. It’s a matter of biology .

That's a bonkers concept. Who would run the economy if loads more men were out of commission? Who would fund this? Many businesses would not be able survive. Do men really want to stay home up to their eyes in nappies for a year? They already get shared leave that's more than enough. If anything women should be fighting for menstrual leave every month, now that's something I'd get behind

@Purpletigers men have statutory paternity leave currently. Some companies offer enhanced paternity which means men can have several weeks or even months off. Would you want men to not have that leave at all?

If we want men and society to view caring for children to be important and valuable, then we have to make it clear it actually is important and valuable. I think the costs to society are worth it to change how we see family and childcare.

I agree that extending the paternity leave taken alongside the mother from 2 to 4 - 12 weeks could be very helpful to some families and I think would be a positive step forward. While usually, yes, it does take one to care for a newborn, many mothers experience issues that it would be great to have another pair of hands for a few more weeks. 2 weeks does feel ridiculously short.

I'm mixed on the year leave alongside the mother - as others said, that's what shared parental leave is for. It would be great if there were ways that would encourage more men to take it up (I'm thinking more socially than through employers encouragement). It's difficult, as families are so different. I am grateful my spouse was able to be home when ours were little, but I don't think it would work for everyone or that it should be enshrined in law even if it did.

What I find wonderfully hypocritical 🙄 is that despite the ‘shared parental leave’ act, it’s still 100% down to the woman who gets it.

Other than the physical recovery (to be decided by a Dr) surely both parents should be legally entitled to 50% of the remaining leave, with the option to offer it to the other parent if they so wish!

My work offer generous full pay leave for men and women! One chap is expecting a baby with his wife this summer. They had agreed that she would take the first 12 weeks (statutory pay only) and then he would take the 6 months he gets at full pay.

At 6 months in his wife has decided no, she wants to stay home for the full year and will not discuss it with him. 🙄 They won’t be able to meet their bills...and will lose half their income instead of losing nothing...but she wants to stay home with the baby and he can’t do anything about that.

Do men really want to stay home up to their eyes in nappies for a year?

Do women really want to be up to their eyes in nappies for a year?

That's literally what shared parental leave is.

@meandwinealone, I work in HR and we would happily facilitate more men taking shared parental leave up but its still really small numbers, sadly. People dont want, or cant afford, to take up the option

I don't think you'd get very far with laws that reduce women's maternity leave down to 6 months, @HappyHattie. That's a fairly big backwards step.

PPs have mentioned the Swedish model and that more men take up parental leave - but they had to implement a 'use it or lose it' system to make it happen. The parents are allocated 480 days to share between them, but 90 of those days are for the sole use of each parent. If a father were not to take his 90 days, they could not be transferred to the mother (and vice versa). Doing that has massively increased the amount of fathers taking the leave, as they were in a similar position to the UK before, with the leave being available but not taken up. The 480 days also don't have to be taken sequent, but are valid until the child is 8.

A much better model, paid for by the state (through the higher taxation). Unfortunately can't see it happening here unless the tax system was turned on its head, as employers would never agree to it.

*taken in sequence, but are valid until the child is 8.

My DP raised this with me a few days ago and asked if we could share parental leave on the next one because "you're back to normal for by 4 months tops".

Still wouldn't risk doing a star jump at 7 months pp without wearing a Tena lady.

It should be encouraged and then really become the norm that it’s shared.
Most women I know go back before a year anyway.
And the argument about 2nd babies, well if there was generally more equality and thinking about children then the women might not be in the situation of earning less after their first. (Again it’s all personal choice)
But norms are so ingrained in our society, wouldn’t it be nice to change the norm.

We don’t live in the same world we lived in 50 + years ago. We all have to catch up

I'm taking nine months. DH the other three months.

My dad looked after me after my mum went back at 6 months. I have a great relationship with him. We are very close, much closer than with my other siblings from his first marriage which was much more stereo typical

If you are going to push for men to get better paid paternity leave, please also push for mothers to get it too.

After having twins I bloody wished DH got more paternity leave.

No he didn’t have to carry, birth or feed a baby but I did. I had to carry birth and feed two babies and then struggle with PND and once that was done I wasn’t fit for much else for several months. I wish he had been home longer to look after me and our girls.

He used his paternity leave and then his holiday and then worked at home twice a week until they were 6 months.

It sounds extreme but I really needed that support.

The idea of the mother being the primary carer is outdated. Just don't breastfeed! We shared parental leave equally. As for all of this "it's not financially viable to share the leave" nonsense, women outperform men in terms of earnings before childbirth years. So, no. Only on Mumsnet do women make excuses, "my husband earns more than me". Really? Because statistically, that's unlikely. Mumsnet women like to see motherhood as something sacred (as opposed to just parenthood), in order to justify them giving up their careers. Pathetic.

Women do not outperform men on wages before childbirth. Utter rubbish.

Mumsnet women

Who are just real women, same as every other woman out in the real world. They aren't a special species.

Mumsnet women

You know Mumsnet women are women in real life too?

Women do outperform men for wages prior to childbirth years (early 30's). Look it up.

Also: don't choose to go part time. Duh.