To think Stacey Dooley was right in her response to David Lammy

[CoolCarrie]

“ Africa doesn’t need white saviours” says Lammy commenting on pictures of Stacey Dooley on a comic relief trip. Why pick on her? Loads of celebrities over the years have gone to Africa to show how money is helping the poorest of the poor, and the huge difference it has made over the years.
What Africa does need is governments that are not corrupt and better leaders.

So Cheerio you think that Owen Jones would have caused even more controversy if he said that statement?

I dont honestly know . I know for sure that if Owen Jones had said it you wouldn't get idiot comments about 'blacks complaining' 'white people shouldn't bother donating' possibly still get ignorant comments about Africa being an 'undeveloped country' wtf ?!?! How is it that the same people are so outraged by David using the term white saviour not calling out this type of shite on Twitter etc if they cared about racist slurs so much?

We need to educate ourselves and our children on colonialism and it's history .

For anyone generally interested see the Open University

“I am seeing s few 'white saviours' on this thread right here. Stomping their feet because people dare have a different view to them.”

Right. So you don’t know what “white saviours” means either.

And quencher you might prefer that certain people don't donate, but you have no right to speak for those women in Uganda who are dying through lack of healthcare. Has anyone asked them? What I prefer and what happens are two different things. I know I cannot dictate how people donate or reason to donate. However, if you are going to demean someone in front of me, let them dance, sing and give up the children they love because you call it charity. I will say something. That is not being charitable. That is abuse of power.

Incidentally, show me a country/continent with a majority white population where black people swoop in and do voluntourisn and post pictures of themselves on social media cuddling anonymous but photogenic white babies, I will use the expression “black saviour” very happily.

What I find odd is how easily people are put off doing things they think are right. If I was truly committed to something like Comic Relief, one MP criticising it in a way I didn’t agree with would probably make me donate “more”, rather than make me take my bat home! People questioned why I would say some people are better off not donating. It actually means that it was the being charitable that they had in mind but they view and guilt that they should do something. By us questioning their motive, that guilt is removed. They don't have to feel bad about inequality or how that is caused because I am the racist trying to divide playing stating the obvious.

BertrandRussell irony, it's irony. Let me explain, by perpetuating the 'white saviour' trope, you are making yourselves look like white saviours of black people.

"Playing" shouldn't be in that sentence.

Black people take part in voluntourism too don't they? They go on trendy gap years to lower economic countries too don't they?

Lenny Henry is black no? He masterminded the whole concept and approach of CR.

Can you not see why the term 'white saviours' is problematic, obscures the issues, and puts people with white skin off, making them less likely to engage with the debate, while simultaneous giving people of colour like myself who live in the comparatively affluent west a get out of jail free card?

Making these issues about race all the time is to reduce them to a very simplistic level.

KingHenry somebody who speaks sense, here here!

I am seeing s few 'white saviours' on this thread right here. Stomping their feet because people dare have a different view to them. On an. Honest level, there is a huge white saviour mentality in Africa especially sub Saharan and that is not even a joke. It is actually relevant to this thread but not in regards to SD. She just falls in the general scheme of things and on going debate. But I also know that what would have ticked a lot of people of is seeing another white woman holding a black baby. There is sections to this debate which is intertwined and everyone on here will come in from different angles.

There is a huge issue with adoption at the moment in Uganda when it comes to white westerners. There has been a stop till further notice.

SD has been caught up in the crossfire. She made herself the subject in a huge debate.

Making these issues about race all the time is to reduce them to a very simplistic level.

Well it's pretty undeniable that the West's relationship with the continent of Africa has a hell of a lot to do with race. To say otherwise is imbecilic.

Historic colonialism was a race issue
Modern day colonialism (multinationals looting Africa for financial gain) is also a race issue.
If you choose to look at Comic Relief in isolation you may just think 'charity. how lovely'. But Comic Relief throwing a bone to African nations jars with the way the West actually treats that continent.

“Making these issues about race all the time is to reduce them to a very simplistic level.”

On the contrary, pretending they are not about race is denialism if the highest order.

It's intersectional though .. It can be about race and sex and political allegiance and wealth and it makes it complex. That doesn't mean that one element of an issue can't be challenged or all the elements or whatever.

Making these issues about race all the time is to reduce them to a very simplistic level. It is about race. By removing race you are the one simplifying the issue. The only option you are left with is it's the poor people's fault. But we know how history played out. We know the back stories to these countries. We can't google the amount of debt they awe. We can roughly tell how much European banks are helping to hide. We can assume how much resources are taken out by how much we buy. What phones and cars we value.
All of that is down to racism and the view of that continent and what hold western powers have them.

Well it's pretty undeniable that the West's relationship with the continent of Africa has a hell of a lot to do with race. To say otherwise is imbecilic.

Yes I'm very well aware. Hence I said making these issues about race all the time meaning in some discussions it's appropriate, others not.

In this case I think not. It's more nuanced than that. Sorry but 'Africa doesnt need more white saviours' is simplistic to the point of absurdity. You're talking about power disparities that are experienced by people of many shades of colour. You're talking about revising and questioning models of charity, funding and sustainable economic development.

DL is intelligent enough to have spoken about these things in a way that was coherent and inclusive. He chose the simplist argument. And people on this thread are going along with it.

Ok kids let's watch an African musician you've never heard of talking about raising money for Africa. No thanks. Ok kids let's watch Ed Sheeran raising money for Africa. Ok then - mum can you donate some money

Isn't it as simple as that

If the African musician is still doing it in the same way they will not be any better or different. I don't think people understand what is being talked about and questioned here.

Wow. I've spent half the morning reading the entire thread, took some time!
Anyway, I think he has a point. I've never thought of it like that before. People who don't aren't looking at the bigger picture, or don't know the history.
It's shocking how much it's not taught in schools here (UK) I didn't take History GSCE so it certainly was never touched upon.
Only now as an adult learning for myself for fun do I know more.
Sorry but some of the comments on here are pure and utter ignorance and that's where the problem lies.
I agree that painting Africa is one big place that needs help is problematic.
It's like referring to Europe. You wouldn't just say Europe. Where in Europe are you on about? UK? France? Croatia? Hungary?
Africa the same. Egypt? Ethiopia? Sudan? Mali?
The food bank comparison upthread was a good one too.

@happierever I get your point, kids will want to see Ed Sheeran more.
Therefore want to donate.
That's kind of where the problem lies though. Of course celebrities make money and want to help, and so they should, but by putting themselves in a "look at me helping the poor people" photo coupled with all the history (like Stacy Dooley did) it isn't just as simple as that at all.

@switsy, what a load of s**t. I personally couldn't care less if he was black, white or sky blue pink with yellow dots! What he said was racist, or does racism only work one way 🤔

Why is what he said racist? I think some are really missing the point or incapable of seeing the bigger picture

sky blue pink with yellow dots!

Why does a certain sort of person always come out this?

Quencher it's not about whether they would be better or different it's about the desire of the general population to watch something and therefore donate. If comic relief was just African celebs, musicians etc how many people do you think would watch it? The reason they use celebs is because it makes people watch and therefore donate. Lime I get your point also

Only a few people talking sense on this thread. The downtrodden, the starving and the sick don't care how their aid is generated, only that it is. David Lammy was quite wrong to say what he said and no-one seems to have picked up that what he said was racist. What does he want, for all white people to suddenly stop caring and refusing help? I may be in a minority but I don't care. If I choose to help out at the local refugee centre, I would be very upset if was told that refugees don't need or want my kind of help, particularly if it said by someone who can't be arsed to do it themselves.

Nobody's saying they don't need help though! Where has anybody said that?!
Surely you can see the point? Even if just a tiny little bit?