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To think Stacey Dooley was right in her response to David Lammy

821 replies

CoolCarrie · 28/02/2019 13:12

“ Africa doesn’t need white saviours” says Lammy commenting on pictures of Stacey Dooley on a comic relief trip. Why pick on her? Loads of celebrities over the years have gone to Africa to show how money is helping the poorest of the poor, and the huge difference it has made over the years.
What Africa does need is governments that are not corrupt and better leaders.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 04/03/2019 20:18

And there is no equivalent to “white savior” because that’s about power too.

hoodathunkit · 04/03/2019 20:35

Also this debate should not just be about race, although race is important.

I am sick of various "human trafficking awareness" campaigns that treat enslaved and trafficked people as "tragic" and in need of rescue. This is especially true of narratives re sex trafficking.

This is one of the issues that really angered me about Stacey Dooley when she was in Iraq with the Yazidi women (or "gewlz" as she kept calling them, much to my annoyance).

Yes, these woman have been raped, yes they have been trafficked. They have witnessed a women they loved being eaten by dogs. They have witnessed beheadings of children.

However these women are badass. They have been sufficiently resilient to escape from the monsters who enslaved them and to fight back.

It is not as though Stacey would have had to have tried really hard to find evidence of their resilience, their strength, their power.

Evidence of it was all around her. They had guns, they had trained how to use the guns. They jumped through burning hoops of fire and all Stacey can do is bite her lip and make Frank Spencer style "ooohhww" noises as the women recount the horrors they have endured.

Did I share that I am angry about this?

MistressDeeCee · 04/03/2019 21:31

I'd like to see see Lammy say this to Bob Geldof. He'd knock him out

I very much doubt Geldof would manage that

Nor would he want to - if you read, you will know Geldof also has his reservations about Comic Relief - similar to Lammy.

You're way, way off the mark

BertrandRussell · 04/03/2019 21:33

There are plenty of white people uneasy about the “white saviour” thing. His colour is irrelevant.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/03/2019 18:03

BertrandRussell

Prejudulice + Power= Racism

That would be the one definition of racism but it is not the only one.

Justanotherlurker · 05/03/2019 21:04

That would be the one definition of racism but it is not the only one.

It's a classic effort to redefine it under pseudo intellectualism because the more defined definition doesn't fit into the neat IDPOL oppression stack.

BertrandRussell · 05/03/2019 21:17

I can’t see a problem with separate
words for racism, prejudice and xenophobia because they are different things. Can anyone explain?

ColeHawlins · 05/03/2019 22:01

That would be the one definition of racism but it is not the only one.

And, TBF, it's not the legal one in any of the U.K. legal systems.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/03/2019 07:22

The problem isn't using separate words for separate things.

Its using a single definition as a catch all when that isn't what the definition is.

Using the definition of institutional racism whilst ignoring the definition of individual racism helps no-one and causes even more divisions.

BertrandRussell · 06/03/2019 07:48

Well, whatever definition you use, Lammy wasn’t racist.

BertrandRussell · 06/03/2019 07:52

Apart from anything else, he was expressing a view that very many people of all colours and ethnicities share. Including Bob Geldof. It was nothing to do with his colour.

ivykaty44 · 06/03/2019 08:08

I’ve become increasingly disappointed in the celebrity factory of these programs. I have been given the impression to many times that the fund raising is really about the celebrity & fund raising is an added bonus. I’ve stopped watching consequently and yet used to enjoy the Friday night marathon tv show

user1457017537 · 06/03/2019 08:49

I heard that Bob Geldof had started a hedge fund as Africa was so rich in natural resources and potential.

MrsJayy · 06/03/2019 09:28

hoodathinkit don't mix badassness resilliance up with trauma those women were literally fighting for their lives .

ColeHawlins · 06/03/2019 09:52

Well, whatever definition you use, Lammy wasn’t racist.

Agreed.

ColeHawlins · 06/03/2019 09:53

I heard that Bob Geldof had started a hedge fund as Africa was so rich in natural resources and potential.

Voices in your head? Grin

user1457017537 · 06/03/2019 16:27

Colehawlins no a private equity fund to raise capital to invest in African businesses since 2011. Millions of pounds of investment.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/03/2019 17:26

BertrandRussell
Well, whatever definition you use, Lammy wasn’t racist.

I didn't say that he was.

hoodathunkit · 06/03/2019 18:06

hoodathinkit don't mix badassness resilliance up with trauma those women were literally fighting for their lives .

I would not for one moment suggest that the women are not traumatised or that they are not vulnerable.

My concern is that the Stacey Dooley documentary did not grant the women the respect that they are due.

People can be traumatised, vulnerable and badass. The categories are not mutually exclusive.

Just to be clear, if the women had been celebrated as badass warriors out to kick daesh arse, complete with Ross Kemp style gun porn and lots of fist pumping and high fives it would have brought up different concerns for me.

It is exactly the complex mix of warrior and survivor, toughness and vulnerability, that makes the women human and gives them agency in the eyes of the audience.

Do we really need Stacey to listen to the women's horrifying narratives and then to for Stacey to tell us that it is horrible / heartbreaking / whatever?

Was it really necessary for Stacey to ask a young female soldier "aren't you afraid that you might get killed fighting ISIS?". Is this the sort of question to ask any soldier as they are heading for the frontline?

How is a soldier to respond to this question? Some will say they are doing a job and are looking forward to it. Few will admit to fear even though any normal person feels afraid in such a situation.

the woman replies that she is not afraid to be martyred. What else could she say? She is almost at the frontline where, if you give in to fear you cannot function.

Would it not be more interesting to learn how becoming a soldier and fighting daesh affects the women's self esteem and how it effects their community's perception of them?

It was not so long ago that Yazidi women who were raped or trafficked were shunned by their community and / or subjected to honour killings.

There is an incredibly important story to be told about these women who have survived and witnessed appalling violations are recreating themselves.

Yazidi society has changed dramatically, very recently, in order to accommodate and welcome these brave women back to their society.

This news item is really interesting and left me wanting to know more about how Yazidi women integrate themselves back into their culture after being abused.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jul/01/i-was-sold-seven-times-yazidi-women-welcomed-back-into-the-faith

I wanted to know more about the women as complex, multi-faceted people. I wanted to know more about the recent changes in Yazidi culture that allow these women to return home when at one time this would have been unthinkable.

I would have preferred that the documentary was more nuanced and intelligent and less tabloid in its feel.

I think that the subject matter is so shocking and delicate that a serious journalist with significant experience of war traumatised people would have been more appropriate than Dooley, who I understand is a reality TV star who has morphed into someone who has been given the title "investigative journalist" via a non-traditional route.

An earlier poster commented that Dooley is an investigative journalist in the same way that Ross Kemp is an investigative journalist. I think this is correct.

The situation of the Yazidi warrior women is a delicate one. While the women want their stories to be heard, they will have an instinctual anxiety about their stories being portrayed in a manner that depicts them as stereotypical, tragic, disempowered victims.

I am not disputing that they are victims / survivors, they undoubtably are, but they are trying to fight back and are courageous and worthy of admiration.

We saw a lot more footage of Stacey flicking her hair, flashing her perfect teeth and sporting her sparkling clean white clothes (unusual attire for a war zone) than we did of the women themselves.

To be clear, I do not dislike Stacey Dooley, I do not feel that she is necessarily fake or inauthentic, just out of her depth and the wrong person to be reporting on an issue of this seriousness.

I understand that there are Yazidi activists and journalists and I would have very much preferred for the BBC to give the job of presenting the documentary to a Yazidi woman than to Stacey.

I think that the programme would have been much more interesting and much more engaging.

KingHenrysCodpiece · 07/03/2019 08:48

It's a classic effort to redefine it under pseudo intellectualism because the more defined definition doesn't fit into the neat IDPOL oppression stack

Pretty much.

Pauperlil · 27/03/2019 10:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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