Making another adult say please/thank you!

[mummyhaschangedhername]

For clarity, I often have to shake myself because I say thank you so often and often at inappropriate times. Like those people how say "I love you" to customers or their boss, it a bit of a brain fart for me. My emails automatically Sign off Thanks as I use it so often.

Anyway. I help out at a school, I'm on the PTA and a Governor, but I also help out with whatever needs done and volunteer for most things going on there.

There is a new temporary office staff, I often have to ask her for things as we store PTA money in the office or to get keys etc. I usually use her name and will say something like, "can you do me a favour" and request what I need. She has three times stopped me and asked me what the magic word was and twice said "if you were a child I would be telling you to say please and thank you". For reference I do always say thank you anyway. But I am getting irked by being called out in an office for being impolite. One of the times she did this, I had just said "that's great, you're a star" and she still called me out on this.

All my kids reports always say how polite they are.

There is some undercurrents in the school so I am not sure if this is to do with this, but frankly I'm fed up of it. It happened so many times now. I'm in the school helping them out, all staff have to go ask to get stuff, I'm not making more work, In fact the opposite. As it is we "borrow" staff from other schools to support our office staff as there are some major issues going on, I am involved in some staff disciplinary actions and while I know the staff don't know the details I think they don't like me because of that. I don't care if she likes me or not, but she doesn't dare do it in front of senior leadership and I can see her smirk 😏 when she does it to me to the kitchen staff.

I guess I find it irking that an adult would instruct another adult in this manner. I am being grateful, I do say thank you, I can surely express gratitude my saying, "that's brilliant" or whatever without a script saying "please may I".

I'm not confrontational but looking for a funny reply that gets my point across but isn't too catty. Unless everyone actually believes AIBU and my conversations need to be scripted that that manner.

@cordeliavorkosigan - she hasn't thanked me but I'm not sure everyone hears the same things. As in she knows what she is saying in her head and she is probably thinking, like I am, that she is being polite. It's not something that bothers me to be honest.

As for me not needing to me there, neither does she, she is saving our necks to be honest and while she is being paid she is out of her depth and has worked really hard to get up to speed on everything. Whereas often I'm there killing time anyway so I might as well help out when are where I can. I have said this to her, obviously not the being out of her depth part, but I guess that is why I am a bit "gushing" with the star thing as she has truly filled a gap that would have created a bigger catastrophe for us if she hadn't.

Next Monday for example we are taking photos for world book day, so I'll be there all day, I have a shop ordered for other PTA and I help with reading on a Monday,. I might well have some free time between those times so I might as well stay and help if I can.

Gratitude is more than please and thank you - most people will recognise that. However, there are basic social conventions in our society (assuming UK here) and when you deliberately avoid these it comes across as being rude.

If I was working in an office with you and you never said please to me I would think you were rude. It's not likely to bother me, and I wouldn't say anything (certainly not talk about 'magic words') but it would form part of my perception of you.

In my current post, if you never said please to anyone I would be likely to take you aside for a general chat about teamworking / how interactions are perceived etc

@mummyhaschangedhername I agree with what you replied to me me and what your dad said: the way something is said and emphasis make far more difference in the politeness of a request.

This is something that we learn and develop as we mature into adults, which is why Ps & Qs are far more significant to children.

To summarise, you’re not definitely not being unreasonable.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all she sounds like a nightmare.

By now I would have turned around and said "I am here volunteering to help out and you are being extremely rude and patronising, would you rather I go?

This ^

She has no right, especially as an office administrator, to make demands on how people speak to her.

It's fairly obvious by your posts that you're intelligent and well mannered. She is being deliberately petty and patronising. She is trying to be an irritant. I'd be asking her why tbh, and if she'd like to get whatever is bothering her off her chest.

Kill her with kindness from now on, ott on the please and thanks.

@bluegreygreen - it certainly is not the case I've NEVER said please. I do anyways you thank you, but sometime I use other (what I assumed was) grateful sentences as well as please as I felt it was quite monotone (which I've clearly have been corrected is not the case).

I actually had a staff member say, I can't believe she would say that to you, you always say please and thank you. I pointed out clearly I hadn't that time but I did feel she was being out of order the way she spoke to me.

However on reflection, for some people it's clearly important to use it every time and that's fine, I'll just do that from now on.

I'm also wondering if part of the difficulty is she's not quite sure what your role is.

Have the boundaries git a bit blurred somewhere?

You are a governor
You're on the PTA
You volunteer
You are involved in disciplining staff
You're 'often there killing time'

Is she feeling uncomfortable because she's not clear what your role is, and it creates more uncertainty for her? Is talking to you like this a way of expressing her uncertainty/discomfort?

(I think you should say please, but I think how she is dealing with it is rude)

@Joey7t8 - exactly. I thought they were words taught to express gratitude not gratitude itself. But, I'll just make sure to use them from now on.

Sorry, cross-posted

There are many ways to be polite and some people who insist on 'please' for every single interaction are actually very rude in their tone of voice and passive aggressiveness.
Too much focus on etiquette here; saying 'please' all the time is very formal when talking to someone you see regularly. I think expressions like ' could you...' or 'would you mind....' are just as good when said politely and are less formal.
In this case I would just go with it though.

I think she is marking her territory. She is being a bit of a bully when eyeing other staff, when commenting on you.
Of course you should says please and thank you, but what she is doing is rude. Next time don't answer just stare at her or tell her that it work both ways.

@bluegreygreen - possibly you're right. But what's the option? There are very few that volunteer, school asked me to get involved with all but the PTA which I did first. School disciplinary is a governor role although to escalate to this level is rare.

I do often feel things are fairly blurred though, but like I say, what's the option? School needs the support and there are not many others around. The PTA only has four main members, the other is chair of both governors and PTA, the other is a teacher and we only have one other parent. We have more staff and parents who help out but none prepared to commit, we ran without a chair for awhile.

There is a lot of things that can only be done at school due to data protection laws so I'm there a lot (I'm secretary).

So maybe that's the issue but I don't know how to resolve it. I would be more than happy to step down from any of my "roles" but there isn't anyone else.

“Xxxx can I borrow a pen”

“What’s the magic word”

“Xxxx can I borrow a pen.... NOW!!!!”

I would be riled by someone telling me to say please and thank you.

I know that I'd make some smart-arsed comment and come across like a bitch and feed her passive agressive soul even more. Urgh.

I work in an office and have worked in various offices for my entire working life. No one goes around saying please and thank you every bloody time they ask for something like a stapler. However, if someone turned around to me and told me I was a star because I found the stapler, I'd think they were an insincere, patronising git too.

You probably can't win!

Doesn't sound like you have to be there forever, so maybe just suck up her irritating behaviour, post about it on here for our entertainment and thank your lucky stars you won't have to work with her everyday for the next decade of your life.

@breeze44 I agree but maybe @bluegreygreen is right and she's confused about my role. Who knows. It's easier to just say it and even if she feels she's "putting me in my place" then on the larger scheme it doesn't really matter. Plus there is no way of knowing what the staff who are suspended have said about me/us!

“Please could I borrow a pen?”

“Sure!”

“Thank you”.

I’m dying from the effort of just typing it

Say please and thank you, it won’t kill you. You don’t gain any kind of moral highground or make any kind of stand by refusing to adhere the upmost basic rules of human decency.

abracadabra or alacazoom are officially the magic words, I know this as I say a magician at a party two weeks ago.. im told open sesame sometimes works, but if you should sausages it goes all wrong...

You wouldn’t have to be “riled” if you learned some manners.

I don’t always say please because it souns f*ing ridiculous when you keep saying it. Sometimes I say that’s great cheers or excellent i owe you or a hundred other things.

@MargoLovebutter - I don't dislike her. Her saying this is the only things that really bothers me. So really maybe it's better for me to just say it as often as she needs.

I do agree though, I've worked on lots of different organisations and people would think I was crazy. My main "career" was a nurse so maybe that environment has rubbed off on me. No surgeon has ever repeatedly asked me to "please pass the ... scalpel" and then immediately thanked me. But then I'm no surgeon.

So, I'll just use please and thank you at every opportunity and hopefully that will appease.

@Wellfuckmeinbothears - you thank you bus driver but swear and name call someone on the internet? Nice 👍

I always think people are being sarcastic or patronising when people say please in a request then thank you after. It has such a PA undertone.

It does all sound very difficult and stressful.

Is there a time-line for resolution of the situation - suspended staff returning / employing others? At least you could see an end to some of the difficulties then.

@Oliversmumsarmy - me too! I don't think it's actually possibly to please everyone. Clearly I've been offence without meaning to in the slightest.

However, I suppose the fact she has expressed the need for "magic words" means I should just go with it. No harm done.

I find it interesting that the people defending not using please/thank you are using examples where "please" comes first in the sentence and therefore the whole thing sounds awkward/demanding, e.g. "please get me the cash box". IMO "could you grab the cash box for me, please" is a more natural way of asking and includes "please" without being weird.