Making another adult say please/thank you!

[mummyhaschangedhername]

For clarity, I often have to shake myself because I say thank you so often and often at inappropriate times. Like those people how say "I love you" to customers or their boss, it a bit of a brain fart for me. My emails automatically Sign off Thanks as I use it so often.

Anyway. I help out at a school, I'm on the PTA and a Governor, but I also help out with whatever needs done and volunteer for most things going on there.

There is a new temporary office staff, I often have to ask her for things as we store PTA money in the office or to get keys etc. I usually use her name and will say something like, "can you do me a favour" and request what I need. She has three times stopped me and asked me what the magic word was and twice said "if you were a child I would be telling you to say please and thank you". For reference I do always say thank you anyway. But I am getting irked by being called out in an office for being impolite. One of the times she did this, I had just said "that's great, you're a star" and she still called me out on this.

All my kids reports always say how polite they are.

There is some undercurrents in the school so I am not sure if this is to do with this, but frankly I'm fed up of it. It happened so many times now. I'm in the school helping them out, all staff have to go ask to get stuff, I'm not making more work, In fact the opposite. As it is we "borrow" staff from other schools to support our office staff as there are some major issues going on, I am involved in some staff disciplinary actions and while I know the staff don't know the details I think they don't like me because of that. I don't care if she likes me or not, but she doesn't dare do it in front of senior leadership and I can see her smirk 😏 when she does it to me to the kitchen staff.

I guess I find it irking that an adult would instruct another adult in this manner. I am being grateful, I do say thank you, I can surely express gratitude my saying, "that's brilliant" or whatever without a script saying "please may I".

I'm not confrontational but looking for a funny reply that gets my point across but isn't too catty. Unless everyone actually believes AIBU and my conversations need to be scripted that that manner.

[breeze44]

You don’t gain any kind of moral highground or make any kind of stand by refusing to adhere the upmost basic rules of human decency.

It's not a rule of human decency; it's a cultural convention in many parts of the UK. No other country I've been to uses 'please' and 'thank you' so much, especially 'please'. It can feel stifling if you have to say it every single time, and unnecessarily formal.

I remember one time I was packing a woman's bag when I worked in a shop. She had about twenty items, after I packed the first one she said 'Thank you' I said 'You're welcome'. After the second one she said thank you again and I said 'No problem'. She then thanked me again after the third one and I said nothing because it was getting ridiculous! What was the need to say thank you every single time? Once at the beginning and once at the end is more than enough!

[goodwinter]

Similarly, OP:

otherwise it's a bit monotone when I'm sitting in an office and we are say counting money and I have to say, "please can you confirm this is £52 and thank you for doing it" it's just crazy that people apparently talk this way.

Nobody talks that way, pre-emptively adding "and thank you for doing it" on the end of a request. Just saying "thanks" afterwards is fine and quite normal!

[mummyhaschangedhername]

@bluegreygreen - yes, the police/fraud team/council initially told us we needed to suspend them and then THEY investigated. Which took about 5-7 months. Then they "strongly advised" us we needed to tale further action, where the council instructed someone to internally investigate. That took 4-5 months. So it's been a very long process for them (and us) unfortunately. When that investigation completed the Chair of governors needs to instruct how to proceed (although the investigation pretty much spells that out) and everyone is supported by a HR representative. Then a panel from the governing body is instructed to make a decision. We had to be fully vetted before to could do it (none of us wanted to) to limit conflict of interests. We then get given the evidence and attend a hearing. Is there is a very very snd loop of people who know of the full details. Staff member gets full HR support and OT support, full pay while investigation goes on and can have legal or union representatives at the hearing and any meeting desired. All meetings and hearing are done away from school. It's horrible, for everyone, I feel for the staff in the amount of time it's taken.

So there is another case for us to hear but we won't see or know any of the evidence until it's all confirmed and approved again.

[Armadillostoes]

Wellfuck-do you genuinely not get that this woman isn't interested in manners? She is playing a nasty power game and trying to assert some sort of control?

[mummyhaschangedhername]

@goodwinter - I think that's where it helps to post and get varied opinions. I haven't really consider constructing my sentences that way verbally. I suppose that is because I consider the fact I would say thank you at the end of the sentence or immediately afterwards. However, you're right, it sounds much better that way around.

[Wellfuckmeinbothears]

*Your

My bus driver says “you’re welcome”. I say “single to X please”. It’s utter basic human kindness and the fact you need a lesson in that makes me sad.

[Wellfuckmeinbothears]

Also the fact that they’re having to dumb it down to “what’s the magic word” for you says an awful lot a lot you.

[bluegreygreen]

Sounds awful for everyone involved

[SleepingStandingUp]

I think in a typical office environment there's lots of give and take. So Mary says ooh can I borrow your stapler? I give it to her. She says ta. She has grapes on her table, I ask if I can have one, she says of course, I mutter a grapey thanks. It's pretty evenso it matters less / is less obvious

HOWEVER if you're having to keep asking her for thing after thing for hours and cba to say please, plus you're on the PTA, staff discipline etc perhaps she feels like you're lording it over her.

Can you honestly not do any of those jobs yourself? It coens across like she's running around after you instead of getting in with jerj in and yo u think you don't have to say please because she should just be grateful and honoured you're there

[bluegreygreen]

goodwinter

I find it interesting that the people defending not using please/thank you are using examples where "please" comes first in the sentence and therefore the whole thing sounds awkward/demanding

Agree, had just noticed this. I would tend to say 'could you please do x'

[SleepingStandingUp]

Wellfuckmeinbothears my three yo signs thank you to the bus drivers and mostly they think he's blowing kisses. I'm the favourite buggy pusher on the bus 😍

[SleepingStandingUp]

I'd only use please first if it was for a really shit job or something I knew was a pita.
Please can you photocopy this letter 100 times but on alternate green and pink paper and then staple them into packs of three

Thank you before deed was done would oy be if I was leaving and so couldn't thank afterwards.
So above, once I've left can you... And thanks

[Hairyhat]

Just reply "abracadabra!" and walk away with a deadpan face

[lottiegarbanzo]

She sounds insufferable! 'I am not a child' would be my response.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I honestly can't see what the issue is? Why not just say 'please' and 'thank you' in the appropriate places? Why does language have to evolve to the point that manners are ignored?

Some things are timeless; Ps & Qs always.

[mummyhaschangedhername]

@SleepingStandingUp - maybe that's it too. Maybe I should just leave her be and she can always ask if she needs help. Obviously I will always make a conscious effort to say please as well as thank you. I am just shocked and upset I've potentially been seen in this manner. However, I will try my best to keep my "over lording" to myself from now on. I will need to contact head and explain potentially I'm worried about overstepping things as gaps will need filled somehow, but to be honest it's a relief as I have so much on my plate as it is.

[Bellatrix14]

I always say thank you (I think!) but there’s no need to say ‘please’ in every sentence, as long as it’s phrased politely?

“Sarah, would you mind passing me that stapler?”
Sarah passes stapler
“Thanks!”

Or at the end of a conversation “Great, thanks, could you remind me of that in the morning if I forget?”

I don’t think either of those sentences sound rude? Saying please and thank you every time is something we say to children as it is very basic, but you don’t sound like you’re being rude at all!

[woollyheart]

If you have been in real working teams, then you are right. You work together with your colleagues on a common goal and you don't need please and thank you in the normal flow of an activity or operation.

I've worked in teams like that. If I wanted one of the team to do something for me personally, then I would switch back to pleases and thank you.

In a school, they are trying to set an example to children, so possibly things are done differently. In this case, as she prefers it, I would pointedly say 'Please pass the stapler to me' with the please in front. Even though this actually sounds more like a command rather than a request.

[AngelaHodgeson]

I generally say please and thanks but if I forgot and was pulled up like a naughty child I'd point out that I'm not a child and don't expect to be treated like one. The correct response to any statement that begins "if you were a child..." is "good job I'm not a child then."

She sounds difficult, OP, but hopefully the situation won't last forever.

[ComeMonday]

I would always say please. She is rude for calling you out on it but she’s not wrong that you should say it.

[mummyhaschangedhername]

@Bellatrix14 - well apparently it is for some people. I'm really surprised and shocked frankly that not using BOTH is deemed as rude. I guess each of us is different, I always say thank you and I use please and other terms intermittently. However, for some on her it's the height of rudeness to not use both every time. So I'll be adjusting for this instance.

[Mookatron]

It's a difficult relationship. I wouldn't like having somebody who called themselves my dogsbody but in reality was one of the people running the school and party to information that I didn't have about one of my colleagues. I would feel like they were checking up on me and - I'm not saying you are doing this, just how I would feel - that you were actually being a bit superior by 'lowering' yourself to my level and calling me a star - you don't call your equal a star. It's belittling.

Her attitude stinks and she shouldn't be talking to you like that but I think the please/thank you thing is not the issue at all. I think she's trying to take control in a situation where she feels on the back foot.

I wouldn't offer to help again if I were you.

[Yabbers]

Also who the heck says 'I love you' to the boss/customer etc?
Someone I’m working with signed off a call to me saying “I love you” the other day. Made me laugh. I’d only spoken to him once.

I just haven't actually used the word please is my point. I don't know, I always assumed gratitude was more than just a word. Me coming in doing things for her and me then saying to say please can you pass the stapler, and thank you for passing the stabler 20 times or so it just a bit irking! That isn't gratitude surely? It's just a word. That's my point
My friends Swedish husband commented that he always got confused with the number of times we say please. He got to grips with it in the end. It’s not difficult, just add please to a request. It isn’t irking, it’s good manners.

[Witchend]

Where I work I deal with a lot of volunteers.

Most are amazing and get on with things quietly and make my life much easier.
I have absolutely no idea whether they say "please" "Thank you" or "you're a star" or anything because they're always cheerful and helpful and speak nicely to everyone else around.
A very few people make my life harder. They're often doing the same things, but it's the way they do it. They expect things to be dropped immediately to check an email they got 2 weeks ago (which they could have checked at home), or can't wait while I deal with a client because they want the stapler (despite knowing that it's still in the same drawer that it always has been) and they want me to fetch it.
They're the ones who I notice that their tone is off or what they've said (or not said!).They're also the ones who often gush about what an amazing job you've just done before they tell you with an air of triumph "but you spelt Steven's name wrong-it's definitely with a ph" (you checked with Steven himself before you wrote it)
I wonder if you're coming across to her as the latter. You've been there a long time, and maybe feel you know the place better than her.
Do you point out things that "we've always done that way" or "can't you use the blue paper." Because that sort of thing is really irritating when you're trying to get on with a job. Ending up having to stop and explain something that doesn't need to be explained to someone who's business it isn't really, delays your work and is not helpful.

[SleepingStandingUp]

Maybe I should just leave her be and she can always ask if she needs help
I meant with the pass the stapler, pass the list of this, pass that. The what do you need doing is fine because it doesn't necessitate a please from you. You just seem to be constantly asking her to do stuff for you.
If she's responsible for your work load then obviously you need to say what's next / what do you want me to do but that's totally separate to your "do this, thank you"

I think the issue with assuming just thank you is sufficient is when you're asking someone to do something for you, they don't know you'll bother to say thank you at the end as you cant bother to say please, so they think you're just going to say "pass me the stapler" and then ignore them.

The fact you think saying please is monotonous indicates how many times your interrupting her to ask her to do stuff FOR YOU