To think the uk education system needs a complete overhaul and parents need to be more accountable ?

[Schoolscool]

I mean teachers don’t have pencils for classrooms (and that’s the least of their worries!!) why not take a few leaves from Ireland’s book and do the following to save money!

1. Each child needs to have their own resources! Yes! We do that. We have back up stuff in class but it’s not bought for “everyone”
2. Families buy the school books and workbooks themselves from an independent school shop or the school themselves or use the school rental scheme (pay a minimal amount to rent the books)
3. We pay photocopying/admin fees (varies per school) but it could be nominal 5 or 10 etc

These are just basic suggestions I suppose but surely it can’t be up to the school to provide everything!! Some of the onus must fall on parents!!

My son has just started secondary and it has cost me a fortune. Not only in bus fares, uniform and PE kits but also in stationary, cooking ingredients, art supplies, photocopying of maths books, French vocabulary etc. I don't blame the school for this at all but I do worry for those families who can't afford it and resent the government for putting schools in the position that they have to ask parents to pay to get their child's photocopied maths homework booklet. We are in Wales.

Incidentally - I provide all the stationery for my youngest... because she physically can't manage to grip the school pencils and pens etc - and it was the easiest way of actually ensuring that she got access to these pieces of equipment than waiting for the school to realise I was telling the truth, order stuff in, stuff make it from the SENCO to the class teacher and the class teacher actually decide to bother prompting her to use the right equipment.

So yes, we sent her in with a set of colouring pencils, writing pencils, sharpener for them (she can hold the Faber Castell grip type pencils much more comfortably than any others we've found but they're painfully expensive), a ruler with a handle on it to help her drawing lines, felt pens with grips on again so she can hold them... a writing slope (I knew the schools ONE had got misplaced so was unlikely to be easy to get access to one), weighted lap pads for her on her OT recommendation (again school should be providing this - but it was a battle I couldn't face fighting - and the blooming thing was pricey as hell), fiddle toys... a reading ruler as the school issue one got borrowed to help another child and never returned. It all gets lost and damaged constantly.

Incidentally I think part of the reason UK schools don't use textbooks like other countries do is because the curriculum fiddling about with means they get obsoleted so easily that lots of schools are very very cautious about investing in them (the only reason our school has done so recently is because we got a pool of match funding for them - and the PTA funded the school's part of the money) - whereas if they pay out for a Twinkl subscription or the like... that's more likely to be updated as curriculums get changed constantly. The era of having your "maths textbook" that you ploughed through for the year and had all the content you needed to cover in is definitely dead and gone for UK primary. Be blooming easier for the teachers if it came back though in terms of reducing the planning burden down somewhat.

I actually didn't know that kids paid for the hot meals in schools.. my only source of information about the UK education system is Mumsnet and Jamie Oliver. I thought hot lunch was just provided to everyone. As the OP said here in Ireland kids don't go hungry because there's breakfast clubs and free lunch provided to kids who need it.

In Scotland lunch is provided for first 3 years of primary, I think England is the same.
The policy is to help drive up standards of school meals, reduce stigma for free meal kids and to encourage healthy eating with children. Kids can be more likely to eat a wide variety of food if their friends are eating it too.

But yes a bit of me would rather see that money spent on other school resources rather than the state nannying our kids.

School meals in England are free for all until age 7 A’s far as I know

All children are eligible to universal free hot meals until they are 7 (or reception to year 2), but children from low-income families are of course entitled to free meals.

At least, they do start school under a fair system where everybody is eligible. The issue about how healthy the meals are is another issue entirely unfortunately!

low-income families are entitled to free meals after that point*

@Faultymain5 yes I know it’s not free for all. It’s the implementation of the school meal system I think is a waste of the education budget if I’m being honest. Running a kitchen, paying a cook etc, the food waste is on another level (and I know this because I have taught in the Uk also) and as a PP has said, most of the time the lunches actually are not healthy, what’s wrong with a sandwich, a few pieces of fruit or vegetables , a healthy flapjack, etc etc. I would rather my child ate that over smash and over processed sausages 🤮

to be fair, you don't have to go for the free school meals.
In my local school, you apply for the days you want - if any - and are free to give a pack lunch whenever you like.

If I remember correctly it wasn't just the sandwiches that were objected too. It was the lack of fruit and vegetables, ie a plain cheese or ham sandwich and various snacks was a standard lunch box.

I think there was an analysis that better off kids had too much sugary stuff and poor kids not enough nutrients.

I'm a higher rate tax payer. I'd happily pay more tax so that the schools can buy supplies for everyone. It makes a lot more sense for the school to purchase these items in bulk than to have to keep reminding parents and make kids whose parents can't or won't buy supplies feel left out.

have to keep reminding parents and make kids whose parents can't or won't buy supplies feel left out
I get it.
BUT the point of the thread is parents need to more accountable for these things, the UK is a nanny state, it causes more problems long-term.
What message are the DC and their parents getting? How do they cope with the transition to secondary school.

I'd happily pay more tax I absolutely wouldn't. I am fed up of subsidising others, getting no help, and looking at the amount of cash left in my household and in somebody's getting financial help is depressing.

There was a very interesting discussion about people discussing how much they earned, and how much cash they ended up with - after paying tax, after receiving tax credit and so on.

We need a fairer system where everybody contributes and pay for their own kids. With the budgets cuts, we are getting there, the school fundings are abysmal, parents will have to start paying.

StinkyCandle

If you are also a higher rate tax payer, as I made clear I am, you're already left with plenty of money. Sorry but tough luck you have to subsidise other families. Among them are people who are carers, nurses, shop workers, hospital porters, cleaners all people we rely on for society to function. I'm more than happy to pay for their children's pencils. Their taxes subsidised my university education which enabled me to become a higher rate tax payer in the first place and society should absolutely get the benefit of that returned to them in taxes.

@Schoolscool a healthy flapjack five days a week stops being healthy after a while. Bread White or dyed brown, also not that great five times a week. It seems to me that idea is is one of the various reasons why they offer 'hot' meals to children. Offering as much variety as £2.50 will allow.

They serve salads along main meals at our school and the menu is varied from sausage and mash to spanish rice, from pasta bolognese to chicken drumsticks and sunshine rice. Just two options from 2 of the three Monday rotations.

A sandwich , fruit, and a flapjack (who needs dessert everyday), is not really in the same league. But most importantly hot meals. I can't imagine much learning getting done with cold breakfast, cold lunch, cold dinner. They're including everyone (should they so desire).

I remember doing packed lunches for DS, it was smoked salmon bagels everyday, cucumber sticks, apples, raisins and homemade fruit bars. Do you know who ate the very healthy fruit bars (the ladies at the work), but given the choice of Rice and pasta, I'd know he'd eaten. So sorry but I had hot meals at school and I see no reason why children today should be afforded less.

Get Amazon, Boots etc to pay the correct amount of tax and use it to fund schools correctly. Secondly admit that the academies system means that people are trying to turn a profit out of education sonalso reverse this.
You’re welcome.

Oh and see ‘austerity’ for what it is - a Tory agenda to protect the rich at the expense of the poor.

@FullofJellyBeans here here.

It actually hurt me this year paying my tax bill for my self-employed work, but I'm duty bound to do the right thing. I can't understand why a higher tax rate payer would begrudge those less fortunate, able. The carers in society etc. Even when I was a lower rate tax payer, I thought it was the right thing to do.

sorry but tough luck you have to subsidise other families.

sorry but I don't agree with other families ending up with more money than we do! You are happy to pay, go for it, I am not, and I will keep fighting until I stop doing it. I am not "left with plenty of money" as you put it, and I have worked for my income - I do not agree about working for other people. I might as well reduce my hours, earn less and spend less time with my family.

Thankfully, we are getting there, and our system is slowly getting fairer but it is taking a long time.

*spend MORE time with my family
I can't write in English sometimes

Actually maybe everybody should be paying more tax. It certainly shouldn't only be higher earners who shoulder the cost of better schools and hospitals however nobody should be profiting out of these.

I agree with pp I reduced my hours to spend more time with my kids what was the point in us both spending a fortune in tax and childcare and never seeing our kids.

Incidently my oldest is in school but young enough for free meals. I'm thinking we will continue to pay for them on my work days as dinner is rarely on the table before 6.30.

@Faultymain5 the same kind of “rotation” can be done with a school lunch 🙄

This week I sent my DD In with soup, leftover curry, chicken sandwiches, etc etc. amongst fruit, crackers, yogurts etc etc. plenty of variety can be had with a school lunch. As stated in my OP it’s about accountability...parents in Ireland are held accountable so why not in England?? As a PP has said it’s a nanny state and it needs to tone it down to be honest!!

My DC aren’t allowed to take pencil cases because it distracts them in lessons and causes arguments too. Not worth the hassle for the teachers.

I teach in a college so the set up is how you have mentioned. Students have to bring their own stationary, usually a laptop (although there are ones available to hire in the college but they’re not very good) and books. They don’t pay for photocopies but we do get a telling off if we have photocopied too much .

They are adults so they accept this and are responsible enough to remember to bring these things. I wouldn’t expect very young primary school children to remember and I also don’t think it would be their fault for forgetting. Secondary school kids do take their own stuff in although work books are provided. I know I had to take my own stationary including an expensive scientific calculator and I had to buy my big art folder.

So you sent your DD in with hot food? Well good on you.

I'm not sure why providing hot lunches for kids in 1980s wasn't a nanny state but providing them for kids in 2019 is.

I have three DC in primary school. Their uniforms, swimming and PE kits set me back approx £400 in August. It was a lot of money but I luckily am in a position where I could afford it, I always worry about parents who aren’t. The school insists on logo jumpers and cardigans for example which are extortionate. Earlier this week my DD (7) lost one of her cardigans, apparently someone else took it home and nobody owned up to it the following day so I had to replace that cardigan- another £12 gone. Two of my DC have the same school trip which set me back £30. Then there’s non uniform days, book day costumes, Christmas fair, replacing DS’s pound for swimming because he always bloody loses it, they charge for the bloody nativity as well etc etc. I genuinely worry about the parents who can’t afford all of this because it’s the children who miss out, it makes me so sad.

Today the school have organised a hot chocolate day to raise money for school funds. 50p per child and they get a hot chocolate with a choice of toppings. I imagine a few children won’t have been given the money so will have to watch everyone else enjoying the hot chocolate while they have nothing. Maybe I’m too soft but that thought genuinely breaks my heart.

You may think paying for stationary and workbooks isn’t that big a deal but for many families it just is. Primary school children lose things all of the time and the school always seem to want money for things as it is.