To think the uk education system needs a complete overhaul and parents need to be more accountable ?

[Schoolscool]

I mean teachers don’t have pencils for classrooms (and that’s the least of their worries!!) why not take a few leaves from Ireland’s book and do the following to save money!

1. Each child needs to have their own resources! Yes! We do that. We have back up stuff in class but it’s not bought for “everyone”
2. Families buy the school books and workbooks themselves from an independent school shop or the school themselves or use the school rental scheme (pay a minimal amount to rent the books)
3. We pay photocopying/admin fees (varies per school) but it could be nominal 5 or 10 etc

These are just basic suggestions I suppose but surely it can’t be up to the school to provide everything!! Some of the onus must fall on parents!!

I think it's most likely the stationery of other pupils would be lost within school (where parents cannot go). Or even taken by other pupils when they have none left.

These are both not likely when school supplies the standard stuff.

If in secondary i would log or charge a deposit for the stationery and so if it's broken they dont get the £ back. Similar to real life.
I actually think forcing such young dc to 'take responsibility' for their stuff at school actually has a negative effect. They become used to
Mum sorting it
Or losing stuff

Exactly as you get in a routine of carrying dc bags etc.

Anyway dont kids start older in Ireland?

Some of the reasons for expecting a school to supply stationary, books etc are terrible.
If school's are struggling to heat, why can't parents pay towards the tools needed.

Some people would prefer free pens rather than extra computers or gym equipment.

@Helix1244 they can start from 4 but most start at 5. I can’t see any negative effects on our children that are a result of ownership and responsibility I say that as a teacher and a parent.

BertrandRussell
“There is just no respect for property or for the building from the kids“

That’s state schools for you......

Maybe its some parents not teaching respect to their children
Maybe Its some parents refusing to accept that their children damage things
Maybe its some idiots blaming others for what their children do.

But hey lets blame the schools or the teachers.

I would be happy for secondary to charge for pencil loans a bit like real life.
It is sad that some students would break them.
As a parent i will be taking mobey from dc pocket money to pay for lost items to make them take responsibility.

Are pencils genuinely such a problem?
They are 3p each when bought in small batches of 100-200, and probably much cheaper in commercial bulk purchases. Even if a child breaks a pencil each school day, it is only £6 a year.

I think “pencils” are a proxy......

@silvercuckoo yeah not so much when you put it that way but let’s just say for fun that every child breaks a pencil a day. In a class of 30 that would be 180. And let’s say every child in a school from reception to y6 does it too... then that’s 1260 per year. That’s the price of some new gym equipment. Which would you prefer your kids had???gym equipment or an endless supply of pencils to break??? 🙄

@Schoolscool
Well, that's an extreme scenario, isn't it? The total annual pencil cost for the whole school likely stays below £100. I cannot estimate the total stationery cost, but it is unlikely to be a major spending line.

@silvercuckoo yeah you’ve no idea how much a stationary bill would be!! Certainly not 100!! And the flippant attitude of oh it’s only “6 pounds a year” is exactly the attitude that we’re talking about!! If it’s “only £6 a year then why don’t you provide the pencils for your own child to break! And the school can use the £6 they have for something more interesting??!!

I totally agree with you OP. I also find the English (Uk?) system of providing lunch to everyone bizarre. Surely kids should bring in their own lunch from home then there's provision made for kids who are not able to do that for whatever reason. How much money is spent feeding kids beans and chips all over the country when they could be eating a ham sandwich and an apple from their own house.

@bomanaise don’t get me started!! 😂 the utter waste of it is unreal!! The money spent on the kitchen, the staff, the hour long lunch break, the food, getting rid of the waste!! It’s fucking endless!! Here in Ireland we just bring in a packed lunch and the kids bring home their own waste, they are under NO circumstances allowed to put food waste in the classroom bins! In Deis schools (deprived area schools) we have a company who deliver free packed lunches (payed for by the board of education) so not directly funded by the school... but 95% of the children bring ins lunch from home too (they also have to take all of the waste home!!

If it’s “only £6 a year then why don’t you provide the pencils for your own child to break!
I actually don't disagree with your point about parental responsibility - I'd also like to see more of it. I don't, however, think that forcing everyone to bring own pencils will solve the issue.
I was looking at the school funding issue for the last couple of months (in my free time and for my own interest, but with a professional background in finance). I am quite convinced at this point that the problem lies not in underfunding as such, but rather in mismanagement. Not necessarily mismanagement of issues within individual schools, sometimes much wider ones. As an example - teachers' pension contributions are set at the level of 24% from mid-19. I cannot name another sector, no matter how posh and lucrative, where this is a norm - even half of that would be considered an excellent package.

We were in Wales but have been in England since the summer. We were 'pupil premium/PPG' and recently stopped qualifying for benefits. But here in England, it has meant that my youngest who started her new school this week, was able to be provided with basic uniform items to help, because with PPG they also recognise that suddenly not being in receipt of benefits doesn't mean you are rich overnight. Today, she was also kindly sent home with some extra uniform bits that had been unclaimed from lost property for some years
I'm so grateful.

So there are some schemes to help. In our area also, they collect uniform for certain wards, aka the kids from a particular council estate in town. Its a lovely idea.

I'm happy to send my kids in with their own stationary, its what was expected of us when we were kids.

It absolutely sucks how hard teachers are having to work to try and ensure kids have what they need.

Where I grew up, I started school at age 6...
My parents had to supply all the necessary stuff like pencils, colouring pens, exercise books (just lined & empty) for each subject, crafts stuff like glue and scissors and large drawing pad. The school supplied text books, that where borrowed and sometimes additional craft stuff like coloured paper.
I'd be happy to supply my children with the above, in exchange of getting rid of the expensive unnecessary school uniform.
I think for children to have their own supplies, does teach them to take care of them, which in my eyes is a important lesson.
My DS at secondary school, had to learn the hard way. Having been given everything in primary school, he was very careless with his stationary ... he thought there was a magic pen box at home! Only the magic stopped working one day. He got detention for not having any writing equipment and had to borrow (!) school pens. (His school gives detention for all rule breaking). Now he has a very neat pencil case...

I agree kids (parents) should be supplying stationery. As much to teach kids about being responsible for their own stuff.

If kids are damaging school property how do parents know about it?
If they damage/ loose their own stuff parents will know, teach money / things don't grown on trees.

Re comments on parents reading with kids, bedtime is far from ideal.
If by the time you've finished work, pick up kids from different places, got home its 6pm, dinner needs sorted and eaten nearly 7pm its time to then get toddler into bed with older child not far behind. When are you meant to find time for reading?

In England I got my dc a nice pencil case filled it with stuff and my dc were told that they weren't allowed pencil cases in school. They were to use school stationary.
Mind you my work also provided pens!
I'm sure I had a pencil case in Scotland when I went to school.

t's the wilful or careless destruction of property that irks. I lent out pens yesterday and one boy took great delight in stamping on them one at a time, completely breaking them.

I have done a lot of supply and used to loose pens every day. I then bought some with, "stolen from Ms Sashh" printed on them, I some times get sarky comments about, "who'd pay for pens" but they usually come back at the end of the lesson.

I also find the English (Uk?) system of providing lunch to everyone bizarre. Surely kids should bring in their own lunch from home then there's provision made for kids who are not able to do that for whatever reason

You do know most pupils and all staff pay for food don't you?

Add to that the children who would not have anything if they did not receive a school meal?

I did a supply job at a school where breakfast was compulsory and free for both students and teachers, it meant that there was no reason to have children hungry.

I really think the government need to build more factories for these hopeless people to work in. How will they manage in the real world of work if carrying a pencil to school every day is too big an ask ?

When you say hopeless people, you mean children.

The level of idiocy in your comment is just staggering.

Thanks for sharing that poem by Joshua T Dickerson. It's marvellous.

I grew up on free school meals and I am eternally grateful for that. My home life growing up meant that a packed lunch every day would have been a big ask.

I now live in the Netherlands where children go home for lunch or you pay for them to stay over and the parents provide a packed lunch. DD stays over because just thinking about the mad rush of getting her home, feeding her and getting her back on time, makes my head hurt. I am in a financial position where this isn’t a big deal but for parents who have more than one child at school, the financial burden does stack up.

I’m already budgeting for secondary school because those costs are off the chain.

Even if a child breaks a pencil each school day, it is only £6 a year
What about the price of glue sticks, white board markers, red biro, rulers, highlighter marker, pencils. usual pencil case stock on a book list for school
I am sure they use, lose, break more than a 3p pencil in class.

I taught in Australia and a bit came into my class. He was five and his mother was in a woman’s refuge. Obviously he didn’t have any books or pencils and I went to photocopy the pages on the maths book we were doing after playtime (you wrote in the books) and all of the other staff were agog that I was doing it as ‘he has to provide his own book’.

@RootDeToot in circumstances such as that we have provisions and policies in place in Ireland.

OP you realise school lunches are not free, right?

You realise, for some children, this is their only hot meal of the day?

No problem with supplying pencils, however I’m really confused as to why these things are an issue in primary school. They were free when I went to school, how was it funded then?

I did mention donating to the school annually because all the non-uniform days were p*ssing me off. But they were the big money makers other than the summer fair. I also can’t stand teachers buying the kids sweets as a reward. My daughter has dodgy teeth (born that way), and food related rewards should not be a thing anyway.

High schools, I’d much prefer a relevant textbook, rather than folded sheets of paper in pockets. We had these too, back in the day, loaned, covered (in delightful wallpaper), and returned at the end of the year.

I’m not sure what the issue with graffiti on desks or dick drawings is. It never halted my learning. I had other issues.