To think the uk education system needs a complete overhaul and parents need to be more accountable ?

[Schoolscool]

I mean teachers don’t have pencils for classrooms (and that’s the least of their worries!!) why not take a few leaves from Ireland’s book and do the following to save money!

1. Each child needs to have their own resources! Yes! We do that. We have back up stuff in class but it’s not bought for “everyone”
2. Families buy the school books and workbooks themselves from an independent school shop or the school themselves or use the school rental scheme (pay a minimal amount to rent the books)
3. We pay photocopying/admin fees (varies per school) but it could be nominal 5 or 10 etc

These are just basic suggestions I suppose but surely it can’t be up to the school to provide everything!! Some of the onus must fall on parents!!

@Awwlookatmybabyspider seriously 😒 why should everything be free though?? They have to clothe their children too, and feed them should that also be free!! Ffs!

I do agree that parents should in theory provide more (though at my daughter's high school we are being asked to provide more and more things each year). Though the American teachers I know end up paying for a lot of supplies out of their own money every year as not all parents buy the stuff required and the school provides nothing at all. Not even a pencil.

“Awwlookatmybabyspider seriously 😒 why should everything be free though?? ”

Because children should not suffer because they have struggling/poor/feckless parents. Because school should be a place that tries to level the playing field. Because we should be trying to make things better for the next generation, not entrenching inequality.

Parents have no choice but to send their kids to schoo, so. How is it fair that they're out of pocket for it
Really it is an amazing choice to be have. DC provided with an education to set them up for life.
I always tell my DC how lucky they are in comparison to many places in the world.
DC cost money, it is a very entitled attitude to think education should not put you out of pocket.

A class of 30 children in the local primary will attract a government funding of around £150K (even assuming no pupil premium or SEN).
A class of 10 children in the local prep will attract the same fees of £150K.
Somehow the prep is able to have immaculate facilities, the latest equipment, attract great teachers and have enough pencils for everyone.
I'd say it is up to school to manage the funds they have properly. The biggest hole in my DC's school budget are not pencils and books, but the contribution to the teachers' defined benefit pension fund. No private employer offers these pensions anymore due to the enormous cost. Why do they still exist in (presumably) critically underfunded government sector?

BertrandRussell I completely get no child should suffer, there are many set ups here as there are lots of poor parents addicted parents and parents who dont care here too.
I don't think every DC needs to be provided with these things, the schools are aware of which child needs extra, we have a great uniform donation system too.

'Parents have no choice but to send their dc to school. Why should they be out of pocket ?'
Seriously? Having children is a choice. Having more than you can afford is a choice. Homeschooling is a choice. If you don't think parents should be responsible for paying for the children they chose to have, by default that means someone else has to pay for them. Who do you think should pay instead? Tax payers shouldn't be expected for every single thing of someone else's choices.

“ Tax payers shouldn't be expected for every single thing of someone else's choices.”

No. But they should be expected to pay for education and access to education for all.

But where does it end bertrand? Tax payer paying for uniforms, transport to school, school trips? The tax payer already pays for the vast vast majority of schooling, all im saying is the parent needs to take some financial responsibility for the children they chose to have. Unfortunately the tax payers can't afford it all anymore.

“Tax payer paying for uniforms, transport to school, school trips? ”
Yep. Happy to pay taxes to ensure that all children have access to a full state education. Apart from anything else- it’s in my best interests.

“, all im saying is the parent needs to take some financial responsibility for the children they chose to have.”
Ideally they should. But if they won’t, or aren’t in a position to, the state (aka the taxpayer) takes up the slack.

In secondary school we as parents supply everything for our children with the exception of exercise books and actual teaching resources. My kids don't have text books just printed sheets they are given that they have to glue into an exercise book. It's shocking how man bits of paper they are given. All paper/lined paper/ stationary/glue/binders/files/etc are provided by us.
Primary we pay £10 a term towards cooking and resources and constantly asked for donations/resources pertaining to outdoor play area and topics. I think that schools are woefully underfunded now and it's a shame that children's education is affected by this.

Ideally they should. But if they won’t,
I agree but they should at least try to introduce personal stationary. Id imagine it could save a fortune in each school, with a stock fund for those who can't afford too.
I guess it is what your used too, but it is shocking to me schools are expected to supply these things.

I get what you're saying, and it's a nice sentiment, because none of this is the child's fault, but my cynical worry is what message does this send out?
'Have as many children as you like, regardless of whether you actually want children, or have any intention of actually looking after them, because the tax payer is responsible for their costs, and on top of that, we'll give you money to do it.'

@BertrandRussell I think you know what you are stating is unsustainable 🙄 there’s a hell of a lot of ppl out there who don’t even earn enough(or want to) to pay tax, the tax payer CANNOT pick up the slack every time for everyone else who cannot be arsed, I don’t mind picking up slack for those who are unable for medical reasons etc. Nhs? Education? Flippin period poverty etc etc

The government in England as fucked up royally by creating a population with the entitled mindset, a population dependent on tax credits, etc etc. something has to change! Responsiblity needs to be handed back in some ways to the ppl.

The thing is though. Parents have no choice but to send their kids to schoo, so. How is it fair that they're out of pocket for it

Are you a troll or thick?

Parents do have a choice, they can provide appropriate home school education provision if they choose to.

Or they could you know, not have had those expensive children.

You have to feed, house and clothe your child too - or do you not believe you should have to take care of basic requirements such as that?

*Or they could you know, not have had those expensive children.

You have to feed, house and clothe your child too - or do you not believe you should have to take care of basic requirements such as that?*

As one social worker told me "Some children are the unforeseen by products of casual relationships!"

Besides which, there are countless studies that show there is an inverse relationship between the education of the mother (in particular) and the number of children - the less education she has, the more children....Children bring satisfaction, and in some cases more income. However, more education means she has a better understanding of contraception and how to care for the children (lower infant mortality); and the more she earns, the higher the opportunity cost of having children in terms of lost salary, career progression and pension, so apart from those, who are so rich, they don't care how much children cost, highly educated women with good jobs have less children. They also consider its about quality not quantity - they realise children benefit from more input in terms of education, care, time, health

I'd have thought many of those, who can't afford to look after their children, are not going to have the time or means or the inclination or the education themselves to home educate them properly either. We need to lift these children out of poverty, through education, not perpetuate the inequalities.

The teaching unions should be lobbying government to fund the education system better; not expecting parents, who are already suffering the same budget pressures as the school on a domestic scale, to bale them out!

I have to agree OP, I couldn't believe schools providing all stationary (at primary), and exercise books (at secondary). Just means the kids don't tend to look after their stuff as much. Plus at secondary no one has a pen because at primary they never had to remember! Not to mention the waste.

Lifting these children out of poverty is a lovely idea. It's not what's happening though. I'm not sure any amount of support and money can counter the effects of their home life. What is happening is the cycle continues, and in fact, grows larger, as each one of 6 children goes on to have 6 more. These children, despite a lot of help at school, are still going on to repeat what their parents did. It's the opposite of survival of the fittest atm.

Thing is some parents do plan how many kids they can afford so to suddenly add extra costs (stationary etc) is unreasonable.
School is already more expensive than you think. Even if it's only small amounts at once. For WBD putfits/dress down/dress up all the time in reception/trips/lunches that are more expensive than i would pay for me. School fetes etc.
Though tbh if parents spent anywhere near the amount they do on parties on school stuff instead, schools would be rich. Or even if parents stopped spending money on birthday sweets for the class.

I do think parents should consider how much the education of their dc costs the country. 3-5k a year or more. So those with say 7 dc it is a huge amount of money. (Especially when you add in nhs costs).

It makes no sense kids taking in own stationary as it would all get lost and waste time

It makes no sense kids taking in own stationary as it would all get lost and waste time
I actually find they don’t because they have a sense of responsibility from day 1 and they need them and look after them. My child is 6 and comes home with her full pencil case (in her bag) every day! It’s not rocket science 🙄

I hate that constant race to the bottom

some kids are poor
some families are struggling
some kids have lost a parent
some kids are disruptive pain in the ass
some kids are spending months at GOSH because they have cancer

All true, all sad, and yes by all means let's try to help. BUT let's not plan the entire education system around them! How ridiculous is that! It would be like banning PE because there's a child in a wheelchair.
You can still start changing that "school is free so nothing is my problem" mindset.
It's fine to bring your own supplies, it's fine to have mandatory school insurance so parents are responsible if another kid break someone's glasses or destroy their clothes. It works in other countries!
It's fine to organise trips and outings and for parents to pay for them!

We are lucky enough that we have uniforms so kids can be dressed cheaply. Families who are struggling financially get a lot of help.
Again, you don't ban PE because of a disabled child, you organise PE for the whole school AND you set up facilities so the disabled child can join in. Same with supplies and everything.

Would it be cheaper to buy stationery in bulk? Yes, then let the school buy them and parents buy them from the "school shop". If other countries manage very well, why can't we?

Thing is some parents do plan how many kids they can afford so to suddenly add extra costs (stationary etc) is unreasonable.

give me a break. If you can't afford a pencil and a book, you haven't planned financially for a child!

I disagree it is not a cost currently so how could you plan for something completely unexpected. So all those parents who suddenly found uni costs went from 0-3k to 9k should have planned for that too??

Op your dc may come back with all stationery. My dc even came back without her cardigan today! The oldest in the year are more likely to be organised.
I actually did have stationery at primary and did lose loads of it. It is hardly the parents fault of their dc is add or adhd or just doesn't concentrate. I even went into dc classroom and the jumper wasnt there. But there were at least 3 other ones left behind.
Paying HT less would save some money...
Getting some of the books from parents donating etc.

“All true, all sad, and yes by all means let's try to help. BUT let's not plan the entire education system around them! How ridiculous is that!”

We don’t. But even if we did, it would be better than planning it round the kids who have all the privilege and support and who don’t use wheelchairs.