To think the uk education system needs a complete overhaul and parents need to be more accountable ?

[Schoolscool]

I mean teachers don’t have pencils for classrooms (and that’s the least of their worries!!) why not take a few leaves from Ireland’s book and do the following to save money!

1. Each child needs to have their own resources! Yes! We do that. We have back up stuff in class but it’s not bought for “everyone”
2. Families buy the school books and workbooks themselves from an independent school shop or the school themselves or use the school rental scheme (pay a minimal amount to rent the books)
3. We pay photocopying/admin fees (varies per school) but it could be nominal 5 or 10 etc

These are just basic suggestions I suppose but surely it can’t be up to the school to provide everything!! Some of the onus must fall on parents!!

I disagree Bertrand, but I am also expressing myself badly to try to show my point, I don't believe that wheelchair users are at the bottom.
I am trying to say that education should not be planned around the bottom users, or around the most deprived kids. I think it's completely wrong because everyone is missing out. It's punishing the ones who are not deprived and it's not even helping the ones who are.

“It's punishing the ones who are not deprived”
How?

I have first hand knowledge that those pens and pencils that are borrowed from the teacher end up on the floor. I'd say 75% of the time they have been broken, snapped, etc on purpose.

If the kids looked after the items they borrowed, the school would save a fortune on stationery costs.

Would making the kids bring their own items help, or are they so used to having everything replaced without consequence? I don't have an answer, but the trashing of items is extremely wasteful imo.

There is just no respect for property or for the building from the kids.

“There is just no respect for property or for the building from the kids“

That’s state schools for you......

Agree with every word that BertrandRussell has said.

Until I had my 2 children who have both got SEN and there is no suitable school place for them I did not fully understand privilege.

Every child has a right to an education.

It is a damning indictment of our society that schools / education (and the NHS) is in the state that it is in.

It is those in minority groups who suffer the most from the lack of funding.

We are the 5th largest economy in the world and the state of our education and health systems are shocking.

A child has to be suicidal to access mental health services. There is literally no suitable education for my 2 HF autistic children who have sensory processing difficulties because there are no schools that can meet their needs.

*“It's punishing the ones who are not deprived”
How?

easy, by denying everybody opportunities because of the one child that might not be able to afford it. It would be like not organising school trips, outings or sport because some parents wouldn't want to pay.
It would be like not offering a warm waterproof school coat because some parents don't want to pay for it, and sticking everyone in a budget badly made one.

It would be helpful if ALL parents could be made responsible of their kids education, and supply the necessary tools instead of believing it's nothing to do with them, they are entitled to "free everything" whilst they are in fact subsidised by the ones who pay more tax, and work harder for them.

In other countries, the kids have a full list of supplies to provide at the beginning of each year. It works well.

“easy, by denying everybody opportunities because of the one child that might not be able to afford it”
Ah. But nobody is suggesting doing that, are they? I’m certainly not.

absolutely no one is suggesting that !

No one should miss out. There ought to be adequate funding so ALL children can access.

Without adequate funding it is impossible. We are the 5th largest economy so why our schools cannot afford toilet paper/ books/ heating is beyond me.

If more tax is required then so be it, but then that would not be a popular policy.

@BertrandRussell

That’s state schools for you......

No

That’s state schools in England for you...

None of our children in the school I teach in would dare to abuse school property. Probably because they have experienced a sense of responsibility from the age of 4!!

“No

That’s state schools in England for you... ”

Oops. I forgot to switch to the sarcasm type face......

Which party did you vote for?

In other countries, the kids have a full list of supplies to provide at the beginning of each year. It works well

This!! It’s exactly how it works in Ireland...I get the school list with the school report. I go and buy what is on the list. We have all summer to do it.

@Schoolscool lots of schools in England also produce a supplies lists. What do you propose happens to the child whose parents could not afford to buy pens or who cannot get out of the house due to a disability?

In my case I would buy my son pens but his executive functioning is so poor that he wouldn't remember that I had or find them in his bag!

There are lots of reasons why a child may not have the equipment,

do you propose that they are put in detention or are sent home or shamed?

“In other countries, the kids have a full list of supplies to provide at the beginning of each year. It works well”

Works well for some....

I’ve only read the first page but I don’t see why people are disagreeing with the poem sashh posted.

My eldest brother made sure I got to school, made sure I was being fed at night, made sure to cut my fringe when it was growing to long. I got put in seclusion towards the end of the year because I had to wear some trainers as my school shoes were unwearable. That poem hits home and is a reality.

What should happen to those kids who parents can’t or won’t pay?

Thing is some parents do plan how many kids they can afford so to suddenly add extra costs (stationary etc) is unreasonable
What about university if stationary is expensive.
Op your dc may come back with all stationery
My DC lose it daily. I have to replace it. Why is if different if they lose the school property or their own, it has to be replaced. My DD is the worst stationary, cardigan even school bag she has SEN, she can lose her pencil sitting in the one spot it is almost magic.
Most DC manage it.

So basically, there are posters who think education should only be available to the children of financially solvent,stable, organised, caring parents.

@taratill we have lots of provisions and policies in place for students like your son. Or those who cannot afford books (as I have stated before) we have home-school liaisons who work in each deis (deprived area school) who help the parents with anything to do with education. So the money and time is out to those that need, it’s not a blanket entitlement for all.

'And the state of our education and health systems are shocking.'
I'm happy to report this isn't my experience at all. (England). The state school my dc go to is excellent, as the nhs has been when we've needed it.
I would counter that people's expectations are far too high, and sense of own responsibility far too low. Someone else can pay for it all.
Take the past week on mn; we've had a parent who wanted a special school to be built on her doorstep (can't possibly drive to a school) for her dc, we've had the parent of a poorly child with a common illness being advised to call 999 for an ambulance even after 111, the gp and a&e had confirmed it wasn't life threatening, and it goes on and on.
This entitlement, because it's free, just isn't sustainable. So many people try to find ways around paying as little tax as possible (working less hours for example), whilst still expecting top rate services.
Take some bloomin responsibility!

What should happen to those kids who parents can’t or won’t pay?
No one is disputing helping any child who needs extra help, I often donate pencils and markers to the school, it would be vital to have a stash for those who can't afford it. I am sorry it was hard for you, I do get it, I came from a depressed hoarding family as a DC.
But in general lots of people can afford to pick up a full stationary set for a few quid, it teaches the DC to look after their stuff, save schools a fortune, money can be spent in other areas, instead of a bottomless pit.

'What should happen to those kids whose parents can't or won't pay.'

This is really difficult because by someone else continually helping them, the mindset is no responsibility and so the cycle continues. But It isn't the child's fault at all.

Kids who are already here, we have to help, so I think more should be done before it gets to that stage.

We currently have created a system where the best financial prospects of a person with no qualifications is to have children. This is what we need to change somehow I think.

basically, there are posters who think education should only be available to the children of financially solvent,stable, organised, caring parents
Not at all. But NOT every child should be treated like they have disorganised, poor or uncaring parents.
As many have said there are grants, free book schemes and uniform schemes, extra stationary in class for those in need here, it is not free for everyone.
The money could be used better within the school.

@arethereanyleftatall

I would put it to you that you are fortunate not to have children with disabilities and mental health issues.

But then it's easier to blame the parents than to have the imagination to realise that there just are not the resources there to support ALL children within the current system.

When I had a physical health issue the NHS was fantastic for that. Not so for mental health issues either for children and adults.

Your attitude is abelist and extremely patronising. I am entirely responsible for my childrens' education BECAUSE the state does not provide for them BECAUSE they do not cater for their needs.

When my sons needs were not being met in school he became suicidal, he was 10, the advise of the mental health provision was that I needed to call the police! The police told me I needed to call CAMHS I had literally no help. How do you propose I am responsible for that.

Please wake up to reality. Just because the 'system' works for you it doesn't mean it works for everyone and it most definitely is not a matter of 'taking responsbility' for your children.

Loving the idea of sending text books home! Would be great if we had more than one between two

“Kids who are already here, we have to help, so I think more should be done before it gets to that stage.”

Sterilising the undeserving poor?