32 days to go until Brexit , which would you prefer ? No deal , the WA or revoke ? Which is best for the majority of the population of the UK ?

[frumpety]

This is a genuine question , you can give an explanation or not for your choice, entirely up to you

My choice would be revoke, if I was considering the rest of the UK population. This does not mean that the UK can never leave the EU, but that those in charge would have to come up with solutions that were not detrimental to the majority of the population.

So, because a very small minority of people held racist views, everybody who voted leave (for whatever reasons) is somehow supporting this?

Yes.
By not condemning those racist views you are legitimising them. In the above statement, you minimise their impact and don't speak out against them.

*So, because a very small minority of people held racist views, everybody who voted leave (for whatever reasons) is somehow supporting this?

Yes.
By not condemning those racist views you are legitimising them. In the above statement, you minimise their impact and don't speak out against them.*

Of course I would condemn racist views (as indeed anyone who isn't a racist would) but the fact that a very small number of racists used Brexit as an excuse to share their bigoted views doesn't make all Leave voters guilty by association.

Of course I would condemn racist views (as indeed anyone who isn't a racist would) but the fact that a very small number of racists used Brexit as an excuse to share their bigoted views doesn't make all Leave voters guilty by association.

You would, would you? Because I gave you a perfect opportunity right there but you chose not to take it. Which absolutely demonstrates my point.

Doubtless there are racists who voted remain but there voices are not being heard. Until non-racist leave voters learn how to drown out the voices of the racist leavers then, yes, there will be guilt by association.

You would, would you? Because I gave you a perfect opportunity right there but you chose not to take it

But there wasn't any racist views in the thread to condemn? If someone had come on here and said "I voted leave 'cos I want to get rid of all the foreigners" then I could turn around and say, as a fellow leave voter, I think that attitude is disgusting...but they didn't.

Of course I could say "I condemn anyone who has ever said anything racist, sexist or homophobic but has some political views which allign with my own" but that's pointless.

Doubtless there are racists who voted remain but there voices are not being heard.

So that's OK then?

I might have already said this, (maybe another thread, or elsewhere) but yesterday was the first day I have really thought that the effing politicians will prevent us ever leaving.

Revoke or BINO

I haven't thread the whole thread, but it's really hard to take seriously any claims of racism from the now institutionally anti-Semitic Labour party, and the institutionally anti-Semitic students at Essex University.

Revoke. And then take a long, hard look at how our political system works and take steps to improve it.

By not condemning those racist views you are legitimising them. In the above statement, you minimise their impact and don't speak out against them

Seeing as Labour are now offering support to a PV, It would be interesting to see how many remainers will align themselves to the anti-semitism party if it gets them a people’s vote. Surely that’s legitimising racist views because who would vote for a party knowing that’s what is going on from within - or is that in some way different?

Revoke

So that's OK then?

No. It isn't. But the discussion was about leavers all being tarred as racists because of a vocal few who are. That will continue to be the case until non-racist leavers can drown the racist leavers' voices out and ensure that those views are not being legitimised in relation to Brexit.

As I say, doubtless there are racist remain-voters too. Their views are also despicable and they should be called out when they air them. But they are not using 'Remain' as a platform for airing them so remainers as a group are not being associated with those views.

So as a wavering member of the Labour party does that makes me an anti-Semite. Nope. I am vocally anti racist and vocal in my utter disgust of the factions of the party that do this. I want anyone who displays those view points expelled

In addition the Labour party has allowed this to happen and not taken control. As a party it was not based on the rejection of others. It was based on inclusion and pushing forward the rights of workers. It has allowed this scourge and must deal with it firmly now.

Conversely the leave campaign openly othered and rejected people from other nations that live in the UK

There is the rub

Its interesting that immediately when you discuss xenophobia and racism in the leave vote, of which there was lots and it was blatant, that people immediately throw back that Labour is an antisemitic party, of which the number of incidents to members that have been proven is infinitesimally small, and the number of incidents over all represents 0.03% of party membership.

The two aren't comparable, and as much as people would like to make a thing about Labour being anti semtic they aren't.

There are in fact more Jewish people signing letters that are pro Corbyn and Labour than have reported anti semtic events in the last two years.

or is that in some way different?

Obviously not if they don't call those responsible for the anti-semitism out on it.

The two aren't comparable, and as much as people would like to make a thing about Labour being anti semtic they aren't

Yes they are and yes they are - sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

My parents live on the Isle of Man, had no vote and are terrified about what will happen.

Revoke

"Yes they are and yes they are"

No they are not, there has been a tiny number of reported antisemitic incidents over a number of years.

However, UKIP appointed Tommy Robinson to the party.

However, UKIP appointed Tommy Robinson to the party.

And your point relative to the ref result in 2016 is what exactly?

People want to see immigration to the UK greatly reduced, doesn't make them racist. If only those stupid football loving chavs hadn't been given a vote etc.

I think the link of UKIP to the Leave campaign is...ahem..pretty clear

Suppose that the majority of leave voters were in your opinion actual racists. What does that change ? Does someone get to overrule them ?

"People want to see immigration to the UK greatly reduced, doesn't make them racist. "

But why do they want immigration reduced?

Lets have the reasons.

I actually don't think that the majority of leave voters were overtly racist. I do think however that the Leave campaign used base populist negative campaign that used racism and xenophobia as part of attracting votes. Take that anyway you wish

Revoke.
Every single sector of the country will get worse if Brexit goes ahead in any version... From policing, to security, to jobs and housing. Everyone will become poorer across the board (apart from the very rich).

I agree with a PP that said they should stop wasting time on this and to start focusing on the important issues... Maybe they should be focusing on the real crisis, which is climate change.